One thing I will add, this growing urban/rural divide is indicative of a need for electoral reform. Cities are just going to grow in size and demographics as society progressively changes and I believe it's important to have a voting system that ensures all votes count, not just the minimum threshold. This is true on both the provincial and the federal level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden
Is the weight of the rural riding votes that much heavier? Do you have stats for this, or do you just want their votes to count less because you have different priorities?
This is true, and is happening across the country, not just Alberta. I don't know what the solution is and both groups deserve to have their voices heard. Alberta has been slightly heavier in weighting rural ridings vs urban in order to try an balance the rural/urban voices. If you look at the electoral map and populations it likely shows many rural ridings on the low side of the acceptable population and many urban ridings on the high side. So some pretty significant differences in population between some rural ridings and some urban ridings. There's only so much that can be done too. Some of the rural ridings are massive in size yet sparsely inhabited, making them even larger geographically makes them impossible to represent for a single MLA and they are too diverse.
At the end of the day you just hope that whomever is governing will at least listen to all sides. We cannot always go with majority rules for everything.
Would splitting the large districts in two, and then have "halfer" MLA's represent them? So they'd have an MLA for their half of the riding, but that MLA is only worth half a vote in the Leg.?
Is the weight of the rural riding votes that much heavier? Do you have stats for this, or do you just want their votes to count less because you have different priorities?
That last part of your comment is, of course, unnecessary silly pablum on your part.
It would stand to reason that with the densification of cities, the clear demographic shift to urban living and a growing population, the current election method is becoming outdated. The problem is that every riding has a representative that represents X number of people. However, if a riding is strongly leaning in one political direction, then all the votes that matter are the ones needed to get "first past the post". The rest of them don't matter.
We need a version of proportional representation that actually makes every vote count, and the Legislature/Parliament should reflect that.
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That last part of your comment is, of course, unnecessary silly pablum on your part.
It would stand to reason that with the densification of cities, the clear demographic shift to urban living and a growing population, the current election method is becoming outdated. The problem is that every riding has a representative that represents X number of people. However, if a riding is strongly leaning in one political direction, then all the votes that matter are the ones needed to get "first past the post". The rest of them don't matter.
We need a version of proportional representation that actually makes every vote count, and the Legislature/Parliament should reflect that.
Is it really that great of a disparity? The UCP holds 56% of seats and received 52.6% of the popular vote. So its a 3.4% difference?
I get that lesser salve lake and Central Peace-Notley have a much smaller voting population than any other riding. but Bonnyville-Cold Lake-St. Paul have many more than most Calgary Edmonton ridings. Hell 2/5 smallest populations per seat are in Calagry.
8/19 riding with over 50,000 constituents are rural 9/19 if you want to count Red Deer.
Could it be better, maybe, but proportional representation would breed a very similar legislature in 2023.
This is true, and is happening across the country, not just Alberta. I don't know what the solution is and both groups deserve to have their voices heard. Alberta has been slightly heavier in weighting rural ridings vs urban in order to try an balance the rural/urban voices. If you look at the electoral map and populations it likely shows many rural ridings on the low side of the acceptable population and many urban ridings on the high side. So some pretty significant differences in population between some rural ridings and some urban ridings. There's only so much that can be done too. Some of the rural ridings are massive in size yet sparsely inhabited, making them even larger geographically makes them impossible to represent for a single MLA and they are too diverse.
At the end of the day you just hope that whomever is governing will at least listen to all sides. We cannot always go with majority rules for everything.
Things are actually pretty balanced in Alberta. I looked at the distribution/representation a little while ago and based on the last reported population data it is such that the largest 8 population centers in Alberta (Calgary, Edmonton, Lethbridge , St Albert, Airdrie, Grande Prairie and Medicine Hat) have about 66% of the population and they are represented by 58 ridings which is 65% of the seats in the Legislature. Calgary and Edmonton are 54% of the population and have 52% of the seats.
The average population in a riding is just under 49,000 and the median is just over 48,000. The average for urban riding is just over 50,000 and the average for rural is just over 46,000.
There are some anomalies to be worked out such as a couple small rural ridings and a few low 40k urban ridings plus some overly large ridings like Airdrie.
Last edited by calgarygeologist; 02-06-2024 at 01:12 PM.
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Would splitting the large districts in two, and then have "halfer" MLA's represent them? So they'd have an MLA for their half of the riding, but that MLA is only worth half a vote in the Leg.?
This is basically MMR
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It's not rocket science. You tell the leader of a federal party who is anti-oil to eff off and that you want nothing to do with their name, you are going to win some votes from the lemmings.
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I do think different branding would help. No, it wouldn't change anyone's mind from the 'They're not conservatives therefore they're evil' perspective, but distancing themselves further from the Federal NDP is something that would appeal to some
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I do think different branding would help. No, it wouldn't change anyone's mind from the 'They're not conservatives therefore they're evil' perspective, but distancing themselves further from the Federal NDP is something that would appeal to some
Distancing from the federal NDP would be nice, even better would be the Federal NDP following the AB NDP ideology.
If Notley would have called out Singh for his anti-oil stance and then told the federal NDP to eff off into the sun she would be premier right now. and not a 2 time loser.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov
It's not rocket science. You tell the leader of a federal party who is anti-oil to eff off and that you want nothing to do with their name, you are going to win some votes from the lemmings.
Do you not realize that these are 2 very different statements?
I don’t doubt that there are people who would change their vote based on the name alone, as I mentioned before I think they stand to lose some votes because of it as well, but that’s very different from guaranteeing that it would lead them to victory, or defeat for that matter.
Do you not realize that these are 2 very different statements?
I don’t doubt that there are people who would change their vote based on the name alone, as I mentioned before I think they stand to lose some votes because of it as well, but that’s very different from guaranteeing that it would lead them to victory, or defeat for that matter.
Hopefully we can at least agree on that much.
Then you take that chance. Where would these disgruntled NDPers go? to the Alberta Party?lol
the point of dropping the terrible NDP name was that you would hope going into the election against Kenney you would have some non deplorable UCPers jump ship and most of the Alberta Party joining the new party.
I have a hard time believing some UCPers aren't rolling their eyes or wanting to vomit every time they hear Smith's voice.
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One thing with a name change and statement that we are a separate party does take away one of the simple talking points.
Right now the onus is on the NDP to convince people that they are not beholden to the federal NDP. By changing the name the onus is on the UCP to convince people that the new party are still beholden to the federal NDP.
One thing with a name change and statement that we are a separate party does take away one of the simple talking points.
Right now the onus is on the NDP to convince people that they are not beholden to the federal NDP. By changing the name the onus is on the UCP to convince people that the new party are still beholden to the federal NDP.
I still can't believe effing Calgary lemmings VOTED in Danielle Smith!!!!!!
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There has been such a divergence of policy, importance, priorities and more from the federal NDP and the Alberta provincial NDP that they just can't really be considered in a lot of ways the same style of party.
The Alberta NDP needs to go back to more of the working class voter and how to deal with their concerns. You can still have progressive style policies but you can go light on them from a campaign perspective and make sure there is strong balance with policies that are appealing to other sides.
The provincial conservative parties have shown over how many years that they can win elections and govern both rural and city minded people. The Alberta NDP has shown strong support in Alberta's largest cities with a popular leader in Notley but get's shut out of rural ridings but also huge swaths of Alberta's size.
The AB NDP strong base is in Edmonton, not exactly the hot bed of progressive values but a strong, working class and more union friendly city than Calgary.
Take those people's concerns, values, ideas and transfer them to other's in different parts of the province.
A lot of NDP supporters and leaders think the key to winning more voters across Alberta is to be more progressive when in reality, they get a lot of funding and political/voter support form working class people and union leaders.
Normally a name change doesn't really help in business, politics and in life, but the NDP would be wise to craft a new branding strategy and different policy direction.
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There has been such a divergence of policy, importance, priorities and more from the federal NDP and the Alberta provincial NDP that they just can't really be considered in a lot of ways the same style of party.
The Alberta NDP needs to go back to more of the working class voter and how to deal with their concerns. You can still have progressive style policies but you can go light on them from a campaign perspective and make sure there is strong balance with policies that are appealing to other sides.
The provincial conservative parties have shown over how many years that they can win elections and govern both rural and city minded people. The Alberta NDP has shown strong support in Alberta's largest cities with a popular leader in Notley but get's shut out of rural ridings but also huge swaths of Alberta's size.
The AB NDP strong base is in Edmonton, not exactly the hot bed of progressive values but a strong, working class and more union friendly city than Calgary.
Take those people's concerns, values, ideas and transfer them to other's in different parts of the province.
A lot of NDP supporters and leaders think the key to winning more voters across Alberta is to be more progressive when in reality, they get a lot of funding and political/voter support form working class people and union leaders.
Normally a name change doesn't really help in business, politics and in life, but the NDP would be wise to craft a new branding strategy and different policy direction.
I don't agree. That won't get you more seats in Edmonton (because they have them already) and it certainly will cost votes in Calgary. The working class voters in Calgary were usually the most virulently anti-NDP when I was door-knocking during the last election. The most anti-vax/anti-science, as well.
I believe their growth in Calgary will come from the progressives.
Last edited by D as in David; 02-06-2024 at 05:05 PM.
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One thing with a name change and statement that we are a separate party does take away one of the simple talking points.
Right now the onus is on the NDP to convince people that they are not beholden to the federal NDP. By changing the name the onus is on the UCP to convince people that the new party are still beholden to the federal NDP.
It's irrelevant, they'll just find some other ridiculous reason they can't vote for them. The name, colour, federal links, that time they murdered Santa, it doesn't matter what it is, or even if it is true, they'll point to it and say no chance.
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