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Old 06-01-2022, 11:29 AM   #41
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for the longest time I had thought that this was how the ideal Canadian government would work. as time goes on I've come to believe that these two things are oil and water and can't realistically exist together on a single platform.

socially progressive means taking care of people where needed, which means money must be spent. it's the type of funding that fiscal conservatives tend to fundamentally disagree with.
If only Canada had natural resources , or 1 very specific resources that if properly exploited with federal support could provide the capital for socialistic ideas

One can only imagine if we were so lucky
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Old 06-01-2022, 11:46 AM   #42
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If only Canada had natural resources , or 1 very specific resources that if properly exploited with federal support could provide the capital for socialistic ideas

One can only imagine if we were so lucky
And yet, in Alberta we have such a resource, we had a Premier 40 years ago who talked about specifically this and even created a fund specifically to save and later invest in public interest projects, and yet every conservative premier since then has neglected both investing in the fund, and in immediate public works programs in favour of corporate tax cuts and populist hand-outs.

One can only imagine why people have grown cynical about Conservatives talking about how we can use O&G revenue for public good.
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Old 06-01-2022, 11:48 AM   #43
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And yet, in Alberta we have such a resource, we had a Premier 40 years ago who talked about specifically this and even created a fund specifically to save and later invest in public interest projects, and yet every conservative premier since then has neglected both investing in the fund, and in immediate public works programs in favour of corporate tax cuts and populist hand-outs.

One can only imagine why people have grown cynical about Conservatives talking about how we can use O&G revenue for public good.
Hey man, we can count on them to get this boom right. Sounds like a massive windfall coming, so we should have some sweet corporate tax breaks in the next election.
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Old 06-01-2022, 12:26 PM   #44
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Yup, for the most part Peter Lougheed was the unicorn that everyone is looking for now. He was an artifact of his time for a lot of things, but his priorities led to a mountain being named after him, as opposed to leaving office a Swiss bank account multi-millionaire. He was more of a governor than a politician.

You can protect the environment, phase out mining, support the marginalized, be a champion of equality, fund quality of life social programs...

... and advocate for law and order, prioritize infrastructure over corporate hand-outs, not believe in trickle down, aggressively sell oil and gas, incentivize head office relocation, competitive incentive for growing industry (film, tech, green, tourism, research)...

... and the thing that will always win elections in Alberta, fight corruption.

The perfect Conservative is someone who makes money for the province hand over fist, but spends the money on the province. The #### that we have now screws up the making of money, and what we do get is spent on their own enrichment.

The UCP are the worst Conservatives in the history of Canada. They get away with it because the Americans happen to be worse, and that is their personal comparison. There are no Conservatives in the UCP. At least I can't see any.

Notley is more Conservative than these boobs. If she can ditch the NDP moniker and stop with any Trudeau-esque social issue of the moment crap, she could be a dynasty.
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Old 06-01-2022, 12:28 PM   #45
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And yet, in Alberta we have such a resource, we had a Premier 40 years ago who talked about specifically this and even created a fund specifically to save and later invest in public interest projects, and yet every conservative premier since then has neglected both investing in the fund, and in immediate public works programs in favour of corporate tax cuts and populist hand-outs.

One can only imagine why people have grown cynical about Conservatives talking about how we can use O&G revenue for public good.
I didn't even say it had to be a conservative. The reply was in regards to why Canada can't have a fiscal conservative who is social progressive (Or reverse - A Socially progressive who is fiscally conservative) running the country since they are in direct competition

They don't have to be in a 'perfect' world.

But the #1 way to generate more revenue in this country is opposed by the majority. And that same majority (or some %) want handouts.

So of course there is a clash
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Old 06-01-2022, 12:30 PM   #46
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... and the thing that will always win elections in Alberta, fight corruption.
Did our last premiere not get elected while being investigated for voter fraud?
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Old 06-01-2022, 12:33 PM   #47
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Did our last premiere not get elected while being investigated for voter fraud?
The only reason Notley came into power was to end corruption. That's it. That one platform promise has an incredible amount of power. The problem is that ever since, the UCP and Liberal feds used this and immediately made it a lie. There seems to be no checks and balances for politicians being complete scum.
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Old 06-01-2022, 01:17 PM   #48
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Hey man, we can count on them to get this boom right. Sounds like a massive windfall coming, so we should have some sweet corporate tax breaks in the next election.
Maybe we can lower the corporate tax rate again and merely continue to hike the residential tax rates in municipalities across the province to pick up the slack?

If I were the UCP I'd take it all the way down to 2% so nobody can say a thing about this place not being open for business. We should also stonewall each of the health care, education and service unions to pinch pennies across the board simply because we can. A few more indiscriminate user fees on recreation and parks would go a long ways in reducing the need to make companies making millions in our province to pay for, you know anything.
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Old 06-01-2022, 01:19 PM   #49
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The fact that Toews is the first establishment candidate to declare, and, according to Braid, is backed by Kenney's campaign team, lends support to the idea that the balance of power within the UCP rests firmly with rural voters.
Not a good look for the party in suburban Calgary. Toews certainly has better rural "cred" than Jason Kenney and his blue Ram pickup, but it also makes the UCP look like the country bumpkin party. Plays well outside of Calgary and Edmonton, but I have serious doubts it'll play well in the cities. As you put it:

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They'll need a moderate, urban candidate just to engage the former PC wing, causing voters who otherwise might have sat out to cast a vote.
The odds of such a candidate coming forward look pretty dire.
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Old 06-01-2022, 01:29 PM   #50
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Sigh. Why can't we just have a credible socially progressive, fiscally conservative candidate. One that is centrist, one that keeps religion, personal agendas and bat#### insane right-wing lunacy out of their political decision making, one that relies on science and data to make inform policy, and one that is in actually in touch with this province's constituents.

Why is this so hard for Alberta. WHY.
We do. Her name's Rachel Notley.
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Old 06-01-2022, 02:00 PM   #51
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Not a good look for the party in suburban Calgary. Toews certainly has better rural "cred" than Jason Kenney and his blue Ram pickup, but it also makes the UCP look like the country bumpkin party. Plays well outside of Calgary and Edmonton, but I have serious doubts it'll play well in the cities. As you put it:



The odds of such a candidate coming forward look pretty dire.
Suburban Calgary is just as socially conservatives as small towns, until proven otherwise.
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Old 06-01-2022, 02:16 PM   #52
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We do. Her name's Rachel Notley.
Touché.
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Old 06-01-2022, 02:30 PM   #53
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Yup, for the most part Peter Lougheed was the unicorn that everyone is looking for now. He was an artifact of his time for a lot of things, but his priorities led to a mountain being named after him, as opposed to leaving office a Swiss bank account multi-millionaire. He was more of a governor than a politician.
Um... er... ah...

FYI: the mountain is for a different Lougheed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Lougheed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Alexander_Lougheed
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Old 06-01-2022, 04:26 PM   #54
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His grandfather. Peter just got a provincial park like some schmoe.

But petition to rename Mount Lougheed Mount Lougheed.
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Old 06-01-2022, 05:36 PM   #55
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There are some pretty wealthy farmers in general, I would agree with you - and we have a tendency that things are never perfect enough . I would say the majority of us however are surviving at best in the cattle industry.

As a producer, there hasn't been a lot of financial gain, and when you add in the last 5-10 years worth of drought in SE Alberta - things are rather bleak. The government program last year helped, absolutely, but for us in SE Alberta, this hasn't been a one year thing - and the only relief we've gotten until last year, is income deferral if we had to sell cows. Doesn't replace income, doesn't pay expenses as the hope is eventually you can use that money to replace the cows you were forced to sell.

Last year we paid close to 80K in replacement feed costs due to drought (38% of our farm income)...
Just curious. Have you noticed any change in political leanings or beliefs?

I can't talk to members of my extended family who are farmers and ranchers about political issues anymore (and often times they are super religious). My grandfather would have disowned anyone not blindly voting right. When we did have discussions around climate change ("global warming" at the time), those who would concede that it existed and maybe humans were part of the issue, would argue that global warming may even be beneficial for them as it would reduce the duration of winter.* They didn't seem to care about research that shows that extreme weather, like the "100-year" droughts and floods would become much more frequent.

Seemed like the previous generation was very much about global warming being a hoax or part of nature ("the ice-age happened without human involvement! What about the 1930s?") to the next generation being "well sure climate change exists but nothing we can do about it." But now they're the Canadians being hit by it the hardest. It's like the slowest form of "leopards ate my face" but there's not going to be schadenfreude when I'm eating my $250 box of Froot Loops my wife got me for a special anniversary gift.

I know they are some of the most resourceful people and the mindset of "we have survived, we will survive" is probably truer than most, but how do we bridge that gap when anyone campaigning on some form of climate change policy gets dropped to the bottom of their list?

*Even if current research indicates that areas of land in Canada that were not considered quality agricultural areas are now believed to become suitable, that wasn't what they meant.
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Old 06-01-2022, 06:38 PM   #56
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Don’t forget that these people lived through global cooling and that world wide food was going to limit population and we were going to run out of oil all at the same time.
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Old 06-01-2022, 09:30 PM   #57
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Don’t forget that these people lived through global cooling and that world wide food was going to limit population and we were going to run out of oil all at the same time.
The last two were problems that were solved by either finding oil or improving agriculture weren't they?

Of course because they weren't a single moment of change - most people just wouldn't acknowledge that they were solved and assume they just were incorrect claims.
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Old 06-01-2022, 10:05 PM   #58
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Sorry, should have said provincial park. Unless it's been sold this year to a foreign interest private concern, for reasons.
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Old 06-01-2022, 10:15 PM   #59
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The last two were problems that were solved by either finding oil or improving agriculture weren't they?

Of course because they weren't a single moment of change - most people just wouldn't acknowledge that they were solved and assume they just were incorrect claims.
I’d say only the food shortage was a real crisis the other two peak oil and global cooling didn’t really exist.
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Old 06-01-2022, 10:20 PM   #60
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Yup, for the most part Peter Lougheed was the unicorn that everyone is looking for now. He was an artifact of his time for a lot of things, but his priorities led to a mountain being named after him, as opposed to leaving office a Swiss bank account multi-millionaire. He was more of a governor than a politician.

You can protect the environment, phase out mining, support the marginalized, be a champion of equality, fund quality of life social programs...

... and advocate for law and order, prioritize infrastructure over corporate hand-outs, not believe in trickle down, aggressively sell oil and gas, incentivize head office relocation, competitive incentive for growing industry (film, tech, green, tourism, research)...

... and the thing that will always win elections in Alberta, fight corruption.

The perfect Conservative is someone who makes money for the province hand over fist, but spends the money on the province. The #### that we have now screws up the making of money, and what we do get is spent on their own enrichment.

The UCP are the worst Conservatives in the history of Canada. They get away with it because the Americans happen to be worse, and that is their personal comparison. There are no Conservatives in the UCP. At least I can't see any.

Notley is more Conservative than these boobs. If she can ditch the NDP moniker and stop with any Trudeau-esque social issue of the moment crap, she could be a dynasty.
The UCP are a bunch of idiots but the person you are advocating for raised corporate and income taxes, ordered a royalty review during a crisis, and put a tax on out of province beer knowing full well it would get challenged and rejected in court.

Kenney sucks. The UCP sucks.

But Notley is so overrated, it’s comical.
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