Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Yeah I guess my original reply to Cecil came across a little sharp, this isn't like those people who always scream "I'm leaving before everything goes wrong!" when their side loses an election.

This is more just that all the things that made staying here attractive in the first place are slowly going away, and future outlook is that it's going to get worse before it gets better. My wife worked for AHS after all. So yes, while politics may not be the sole thing driving the move, it's definitely what kicked off the conversation in the first place.

I am mostly just curious where you have circled to live? I have lived in the California, Kansas, Missouri, and Minnesota. There were parts of it I enjoyed and parts that I didn't. The politics are way more intense there and pretty much all the cool cities I want to live in are expensive as ####.

Some parts of Europe would be sweet but you need a good job lined up beforehand if you want to live in a spot with a reasonable COL. My industry is definitely limited in city options though.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

There are all sorts of reasons why people move to different countries. But if your motivation is to get away from conservative politics, then it’s legit to ask what country you plan to go to where that won’t be an issue.

Yeah, that in itself is doesnt make a lot of sense.

Where do you want to move? America? Venezuela? England? France? Italy? Poland? Russia? Eastern Europe? South America? Australia? Turkey? The Middle East? South Africa? Egypt?

I could go on and on.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

I don’t hold anything against anyone for trying to improve their lives, my post wasn’t meant to be a shot a btimbit as based on his posting history I was pretty confident that he had valid reasons for his decision(which he has since elaborated on). Even though there’s things he clearly wishes were better here he’s not exactly screaming from the rooftops that the sky is falling. He just wants to try and do better elsewhere which I wish him and his family the best of luck in.

My post was meant as more of a comment on the crowd that rambles on about how everything is terrible when we’re still one of the best countries in the world to live in.

All good friend - my response to you was more in agreeance with you, and doubling indirectly as a bit of repellant to the anger / rage post earlier by Wastedyouth.

[Sliver]

I wouldn't move from here just because I like my friends too much. New friends are fine, but hanging with a long-term crew is next level IMO.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I wouldn't move from here just because I like my friends too much. New friends are fine, but hanging with a long-term crew is next level IMO.

Right, but this speaks sort of to my point earlier.

You have a business, a home in some various state of finance, cars, you can pay your kids' educations.

Plunk 20-year-you into today's Canada? Thats a lot harder.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Locke

Right, but this speaks sort of to my point earlier.

You have a business, a home in some various state of finance, cars, you can pay your kids' educations.

Plunk 20-year-you into today's Canada? Thats a lot harder.

Yeah, so true. At 47 - and in retrospect - just doing the typical expectations of you growing up (go to school, get a job, work moderately hard, buy a house) was life on easy mode. I feel a ton for young people. It's so much harder it's insane.

Also realizing how much parental help comes into play now even moreso than back then. I have fully funded education savings for my kids. Just did my first withdrawal last week for my daughter's first semester at MRU. Some of their friends have exactly $0 saved for them. So many of these people are starting at a huge disadvantage in an already difficult time. If I had to start over now I'd probably just jump off a bridge.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Where are you going to live instead that has good jobs, good cost of living, and acceptable politics? You pretty much have to rule out of all of the US if you think the UPC is worth leaving over

Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Germany, Austria, France, Luxembourg, Belgium.

All those are pretty high up there, and while they have "conservatives" their conservatism is alot different than our conservatism.

[iggy_oi]

Wage stagnation for lower paying jobs is in my opinion the biggest problem in this country.

While higher housing and food prices will have an impact on a household with an annual income of $200k it’s a completely different story for a household with an annual income under $100k.

The first household may no longer be able to afford to purchase as big of a home as they previously could or the may have to downsize to a smaller home but they will still have a home, meanwhile the second household has almost completely lost any opportunity to buy a house in many markets.

As for food prices, the first household may need to budget a little more carefully but they will still be able to get enough groceries to comfortably feed themselves. The second household may now need to rely on food banks.

Maybe governments should focus their efforts on coming up with a better plan than trickle down economics to solve that part of the problem.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Yeah, so true. At 47 - and in retrospect - just doing the typical expectations of you growing up (go to school, get a job, work moderately hard, buy a house) was life on easy mode. I feel a ton for young people. It's so much harder it's insane.

Also realizing how much parental help comes into play now even moreso than back then. I have fully funded education savings for my kids. Just did my first withdrawal last week for my daughter's first semester at MRU. Some of their friends have exactly $0 saved for them. So many of these people are starting at a huge disadvantage in an already difficult time. If I had to start over now I'd probably just jump off a bridge.

And then lump in crazy amounts of debt, unaffordable housing, cost of education, availability of jobs...

Thats sort of my point. Yes, Canada is a wonderful place to live, but its gotten a lot harder so the people who see the erosion of our institutions along with our rapidly climbing costs shouldn't be casually dismissed as pessimistic 'Chicken Littles.'

Its happening.

Imagine what this place might be like in another 20-30 years?

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Ferarri

I think its fair to criticize what's happening in Canada without labelling people as grandstanding. This country certainly isn't immune to faults and a majority of Canadians think the country is broken. Bad government at all levels, sky rocketing cost of living has been detrimental to many families.

Its fair to argue that other countries are just as bad, but people seem to get overly defensive when you shame the Canadian way of life. I've lived here my entire life and can sympathize with others when they say that Canada isn't what it used to be. Sure, certain things have gotten better over the years, but there is a lot of polarizing issues in the country which can't be overlooked (not saying other countries don't have similar problems).

Telling people to leave because the question the current climate is detrimental to everyone. Change can only occur when we acknowledge there are problems instead of dismissing peoples point of views and perspecives.

Never said people can't criticize. But threatening to leave is one of the hugest eye-rolls I can think of. If you think running away to the US or places like Australia or Europe for a 'better life', I can show you just as many people from those places coming to Canada for a 'better life'.

Fact is, we are a G7 country, productive economy, very high quality of life, stable democracy, and free to do just about anything you would need to do as a human being in a modern society.

Now I don't think Conservatives are the way to make that any better (even though things are trending towards more conservatism, god forbid), but change comes from average Canadians who choose to stay and build Canadian society operating on pragmatic and collaborative principles for a just and prosperous world.

Then there's the whole 'Canadians of convenience' that RGMG. But that's for another thread.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Germany, Austria, France, Luxembourg, Belgium.

All those are pretty high up there, and while they have "conservatives" their conservatism is alot different than our conservatism.

Conservatism still means conservatism in those countries. Here it's been infected with MAGA.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Germany, Austria, France, Luxembourg, Belgium.

All those are pretty high up there, and while they have "conservatives" their conservatism is alot different than our conservatism.

Uh...in Sweden they are trying to close immigration and are hunting Muslims in the streets.

Netherlands is becoming a LOT more conservative.

France came within a hair's breadth of actually electing a Fascist party.

Luxembourg!?!?! Thats a joke right? Do you have millions of dollars if you could even get them to open the door? Thats a closed country.

And none of those places is what you'd call 'affordable.'

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Germany, Austria, France, Luxembourg, Belgium.

All those are pretty high up there, and while they have "conservatives" their conservatism is alot different than our conservatism.

Those are all countries that I’d consider living in for a comparable quality of life to Canada. But they’re also countries where it’s much harder for immigrants to settle in and secure good jobs, housing, etc than Canada.

And in recent years they’ve have all seen big political gains by a populist, ethno-nationalist far-right who make the UPC seem pretty tame in comparison.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Conservatism still means conservatism in those countries. Here it's been infected with MAGA.

Bingo. People acting like politics is politics every where you go are a little too provincial imo.

I love the US for all the reasons that make it special.

I love Canada for all the reasons that make it special.

But the amount of Canadians desperate to turn the country into the made for TV version of what already exists across the border are ruining the #### out of what makes Canada special. The Canadian Trumpers are the dumbest people alive, but beyond that, anyone who so desperately wants to ape the US should just pull themselves up by their bootstraps, be adults, and emigrate.

If I wanted to live in the US I would simply do that.

And, eventually, if people keep whittling Canada away until it’s indistinguishable, I’ll just do that, or find another country that is all the things Canada almost was until people ruined it.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

There are all sorts of reasons why people move to different countries. But if your motivation is to get away from conservative politics, then it’s legit to ask what country you plan to go to where that won’t be an issue.

I am conservative. My complaints about politics here aren't simply that they're conservative and I've never said that. It's that politics here seemingly actively try to make life worse for certain people rather than make life better for everyone. Provincially it's a nightmare, Federally it's not much better, except that's even bleaker because the guy most likely to replace the moron in charge is an even bigger moron. But ###### vs turd sandwich is a tale as old as time

Again, escaping politics isn't the end game here, but it is why my wife quit her job, leading to thinking about leaving in the first place

Originally Posted by Locke

Yeah, that in itself is doesnt make a lot of sense.

Where do you want to move? America? Venezuela? England? France? Italy? Poland? Russia? Eastern Europe? South America? Australia? Turkey? The Middle East? South Africa? Egypt?

I could go on and on.

Originally Posted by Bonded

Where are you going to live instead that has good jobs, good cost of living, and acceptable politics? You pretty much have to rule out of all of the US if you think the UPC is worth leaving over

My wife has an interview at St George's University in September, so at the moment, that's the main place we're considering. We've been there before but this time we're going a week early to get the lay of the land after Beryl ripped through.

And no, before some yoho smugly proclaims 'buh that place isn't perfect so your entire point is invalid' that was never my point. But safe, beautiful, inexpensive (comparatively), great healthcare, good qol, official language is english, easy for foreigners to move to and get PR and later dual citizenship, it ticks all the boxes. Except it's too damn hot, but at least I wouldn't be working outside there so that's okay

[Muta]

Originally Posted by btimbit

My wife has an interview at St George's University in September, so at the moment, that's the main place we're considering. We've been there before but this time we're going a week early to get the lay of the land after Beryl ripped through.

Holy moly - Grenada! That is super cool, I hope you guys have a blast down there! Very cool next chapter in your lives if you pull the trigger.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Yeah I guess my original reply to Cecil came across a little sharp, this isn't like those people who always scream "I'm leaving before everything goes wrong!" when their side loses an election.

This is more just that all the things that made staying here attractive in the first place are slowly going away, and future outlook is that it's going to get worse before it gets better. My wife worked for AHS after all. So yes, while politics may not be the sole thing driving the move, it's definitely what kicked off the conversation in the first place.

Ah, I did take it as "Canada is going to ####, im outta here". My bad.

As someone who has lived and worked in Europe and the Middle East and South Africa and spent significant time in South East Asia, I came back to Canada for Canada.

I live in Rural Alberta and I honestly love it more than any other place I have lived.

I am not sure what it is that makes me love it more, don't get me wrong I love going back to the countries I love, but coming home is awesome and Alberta/Canada are amazing in my mind.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by btimbit

My wife has an interview at St George's University in September, so at the moment, that's the main place we're considering. We've been there before but this time we're going a week early to get the lay of the land after Beryl ripped through.

And no, before some yoho smugly proclaims 'buh that place isn't perfect so your entire point is invalid' that was never my point. But safe, beautiful, inexpensive (comparatively), great healthcare, good qol, official language is english, easy for foreigners to move to and get PR and later dual citizenship, it ticks all the boxes. Except it's too damn hot, but at least I wouldn't be working outside there so that's okay

Hello Muddah....hello Faddah!

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Conservatism still means conservatism in those countries. Here it's been infected with MAGA.

European conservatism is being overturned by strident ethno-nationlism that makes Canadian conservatives look pretty tame.

The longstanding effort to keep extremist forces out of government in Europe is officially over.

For decades, political parties of all kinds joined forces to keep the hard-right far from the levers of power. Today, this strategy — known in France as a cordon sanitaire (or firewall) — is falling apart, as populist and nationalist parties grow in strength across the Continent.

Six EU countries — Italy, Finland, Slovakia, Hungary, Croatia and the Czech Republic — have hard-right parties in government. In Sweden, the survival of the executive relies on a confidence and supply agreement with the nationalist Sweden Democrats, the second-largest force in parliament. In the Netherlands, the anti-Islamic firebrand Geert Wilders is on the verge of power, having sealed a historic deal to form the most right-wing government in recent Dutch history.

Meanwhile, hard-right parties are dominating the polls across much of Europe. In France, far-right leader Marine Le Pen’s National Rally is cruising at over 30 percent, far ahead of President Emmanuel Macron’s Renaissance party, according to POLITICO’s Poll of Polls. Across the Rhine, Alternative for Germany, a party under police surveillance for its extremist views, is polling second, head-to-head with the Social Democrats.

https://www.politico.eu/article/mapp...tions-polling/

So hard-right parties govern or are in governing coalitions in 8 countries in the EU, and are the first or second most popular party in two others - France and Germany. These parties aren’t Europe’s counterparts to the CPC. They’re the counterparts of the People’s Party of Canada.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Germany, Austria, France, Luxembourg, Belgium.

All those are pretty high up there, and while they have "conservatives" their conservatism is alot different than our conservatism.

All these are much much more racist countries than Canada.