Official WWE/ECW/WCW/TNA talk, or whatever v2

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

After watching RAW for the first time in months, maybe well over a year (and the full episode, as well, which is a feat for 3 hours of wrestling), here's my thoughts:

The Great:
- Gunther's reference to Goldberg, good meme spot.
- Sami Zayn and Bret Hart together, with the Gaudreau jersey on.
- Jackie Redmond's Gaudreau segment (didn't even know she was in WWE, very cool!)
- Pete Dunne finally got his name back. Butch was terrible.
- Joe Tessitore: I love this guy as an announcer. Has Mean Gene Okerlund vibes, but can crank it up to Mauro Ranallo when he's excited. So much better than Pat McAfee (still don't get that appeal).
- Announcers on the mic hyping the start of the show in the arena. Good bit.
- Drew McIntyre - I like his delivery, am glad they kept his music too from years back.

The Meh
- I don't get the popular appeal of Gunther in his current character. I know his in-ring work is sublime but his character is kind of . . . . muted? Better as Walter IMO.
- Bron Breakker. He was in limited use last night, but I do like his mic work. Good at soft-spoken stuff, but I would like to see full Scott Steiner at some point.
- Jey Uso: I take it he's just a spot monkey and crowd pleaser?

The WWE=NG:
- Way, way, way too much Judgement Day on screen. What was it like, 50 times? How much Finn Balor do we need in a three hour show?
- Wyatt Six . . . . Gacy, Lumis and Erik make it work somewhat, but the rest is dumb. Bless Nikki Cross' ability to play characters, but that's just a straight up Abadon ripoff.
- Way to throw Dragon Lee in the LWO. There's the WWE I know.
- Why did they get rid of Pete Dunne's original theme?? That was a banger.
- Nattie Neidhart should not have been that mystery partner. What a letdown, even in Calgary. Should have been Trish or a Canadian female talent you don't see often.
- The 2nd and 3rd hour had to catch up on ads, so they were pervasive and always throwing WWE action figures in my face for 2 straight hours. Definitely catering the product to kids.


Overall, I can see the appeal, glad it's popular and wrestling is doing well, but it's too much of a big, shiny plastic product for my liking at the moment. I like more pure wrestling shows, a bit more violence, and that indie feel.

Being in the crowd it was crazy how over Jey Uso was. People were excited to yeet. they were "Yeeting" at any oportunity. I hate Jey Uso's work, I really don't get it but damn if everyone wasnt into it.

Breakker is the funniest man on TV.
Him over emphasizing Pete was cracking me up.
"when its all said and done PETE, you be saying, man what the hell happened to me out there, man Bron Breakker's a bad ass, man why are all the dogs barking so loud in Canada.

The WWE are booking judgment day so strong because Rhea Ripley is the biggest baby face on raw right now. They are trying to get Priest to that level. WWE does a great job of over telegraphing what the point is. Judgement day will cheat to win with numbers and don't care if that means they get DQ'd They will do it all raw every raw until a cage match where balor and preist have to fight man to man. It'll take 8 weeks but in that time they will get a lot of heat on Priest and Ripley.

[TheIronMaiden]

One complaint I have is that everyone in American Made looks about the same. It's tough to tell who is who.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

The WWE=NG:
- Way, way, way too much Judgement Day on screen. What was it like, 50 times? How much Finn Balor do we need in a three hour show?

I don't actually disagree with this because it was a lot of Finn Balor last night but I think it's kind of WWE's new strategy, which is a call back to the attitude era strategy.

The roster of wrestlers they focus on each show week to week is actually quite small when you think about it, especially on Raw with no Seth or Punk last night.

Raw: Wyatt Sicks, American Made, Judgement Day w/Liv, Priest, Rhea, Jey Uso, CM Punk, Drew, Seth, Guenther, Braun, Ilya, Sami, Bronson, Bron, Damage Control, Fyre/Dawn

Smackdown: Bloodline, Cody, AJ, Theory/Waller, KO, LA Knight, Logan Paul, Orton, Carmelo Hayes, DIY, Nia, Bailey, Jade, Bianca Tiffany Stratton,

They really build the each show around that group of wrestlers right now and it's not really a large group to fill 5 hours of TV each week across each show.

But I think it actually supports their storyline led wrestling strategy, and how the show feels a bit more real and alive now. In the end it's a TV show, and you expect to see your favourite characters week after week, and in multiple segments with intertwining storylines.

They kind of started doing this with the Bloodline in the past but now it's not uncommon for the same wrestlers to be in 2-3 segments each night.

And actually a bit of a call back to the attitude era where guys like Vince, Austin, HHH, Rock, etc could be in 2-3 segments throughout the 2-3 hour show.

Which from a TV perspective makes sense - keeps people more engaged through a 3 hour show and its not "my favourite wrestler already had his segment tonight, I can turn off the TV now".

In terms of Finn Balor I think they are trying to push him into the main event scene here again. As he said last night he was kind of demoted to "side kick" and he's more talented than that. So now I think their goal is to build him up as the real leader and actual threat again and maybe forcing TV time a little bit to do that.

[Ozy_Flame]

This product is ripe for a two-hour show. This felt stretched out, and with a tighter roster (comparatively) you run the risk of overexposure. Trying to fill it with Judgement Day and focusing on one of them is weird - take that time and develop storylines with the others. What exactly are Carlito and JD doing other than being henchmen? What program is Domenic and Liv doing outside of being the make-out couple like a teenage drama?

I'm also glad Rollins and Orton weren't on the show, I can't imagine having them in multiple segments in this stretch (still years of overexposure from the Vince era). Orton doesn't even have any evolving character work, he's still just the 'Viper' as far as I can tell (and has been for like 15 years).

As for Balor, good for him, but he's average on the mic. I am detecting some Bullet Club vibes from this group to some extent (especially with the turns) but then pull the trigger on the Rock and' Rolla Prince Devitt, not whine about sidestatus Balor.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

This product is ripe for a two-hour show. This felt stretched out, and with a tighter roster (comparatively) you run the risk of overexposure. Trying to fill it with Judgement Day and focusing on one of them is weird - take that time and develop storylines with the others. What exactly are Carlito and JD doing other than being henchmen? What program is Domenic and Liv doing outside of being the make-out couple like a teenage drama?

As for Balor, good for him, but he's average on the mic. I am detecting some Bullet Club vibes from this group to some extent (especially with the turns) but then pull the trigger on the Rock and' Rolla Prince Devitt, not whine about sidestatus Balor.

It was actually announced last that that I think starting October 6 they will be moving back to a 2 hour show until the move to Netflix on Jan 1.

And it will be interesting to see what happens on Netflix...Raw doesn't really need to have a set run time anymore.

It could be 2 hours one week and 3 hours the next if you have a bigger show to build to a PPV or something, but they likely will be able to live outside the confines of set run times week after week.

[TheIronMaiden]

I prefer a 2 hour raw myself. 3 hours is too much.

[trackercowe]

In speaking of Gunther's promo, wy create a wrestler in No Mercy always had the technical moves of Bret Hart and the power moves of Bill Goldberg. Hate on Goldberg all you want, but he basically put the spear on the map, and the jackhammer looked like it killed people. I think if he was in his prime in 2024 he could have been developed into an all-time great. WCW is mostly to blame for Goldberg's shortcomings for not training him properly.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by trackercowe

In speaking of Gunther's promo, wy create a wrestler in No Mercy always had the technical moves of Bret Hart and the power moves of Bill Goldberg. Hate on Goldberg all you want, but he basically put the spear on the map, and the jackhammer looked like it killed people. I think if he was in his prime in 2024 he could have been developed into an all-time great. WCW is mostly to blame for Goldberg's shortcomings for not training him properly.

Bron Breakker if he was 6'4" instead of 6'0".

Bron can be that guy TBH. I feel like one day we will get a Bron Breakker vs Jacob Fatu main event and it's going to break the internet.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Bron Breakker if he was 6'4" instead of 6'0".

Bron can be that guy TBH. I feel like one day we will get a Bron Breakker vs Jacob Fatu main event and it's going to break the internet.

I am such a mark for both of those guys.

[trackercowe]

Any thoughts to the altercation with Drew and Barrett last night? I wonder if there's any chance Wade could return to the ring, yet I can't see him being in shape after being an announcer for so many years. He never officially retired, but hasn't been in the ring since 2016. I think Punk or Drew lose their third match due to outside interference, with Wade being one of those possibilities.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by trackercowe

Any thoughts to the altercation with Drew and Barrett last night? I wonder if there's any chance Wade could return to the ring, yet I can't see him being in shape after being an announcer for so many years. He never officially retired, but hasn't been in the ring since 2016. I think Punk or Drew lose their third match due to outside interference, with Wade being one of those possibilities.

Drew has to win this third match right?

Drew won the first one but only after some form of interference from Seth.

Punk won the strap match relatively clean and hit like 6 GTS's.

Feel like Drew has to win this with a relatively clean pin because I don't think continuing the fued to give Punk another clean win would make much sense.

(As an aside it's very similar to Swerve vs Hangman, with Drew/Hangman having very similar justifications for going "heel", which is kind of ironic)

[TheIronMaiden]

I don't think it matters who wins. Both guys are leaving this with proof that they can get over. Drew is pound for pound the best hand on WWE these days. I'd live to see Cody get a break from the bloodline and work against Drew for a couple of months.

[trackercowe]

I'm almost certain we'll get Cody/Orton, then Cody/Rock at Mania. Punk will obviously move into a feud with Seth. Maybe Drew moves into the WHC spot against Gunther, but both need to be protected in that spot.

It's interesting that they already hinted at having Fatu fight for the title, but it's probably too early for that to actually go down.

[Ozy_Flame]

The Boys working out!

https://twitter.com/user/status/1833927834718314926

[LIP MAN]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

The Boys working out!

https://twitter.com/user/status/1833927834718314926

Hahha love them, such a throwback! Their manager gives me Sherri Martel vibes.

[trackercowe]

More confounding booking with the Darby/Moxley stuff. Why would Darby give up his title shot when he has nothing to gain? They're wanting to push Moxley's Romper Stomper/Mad Max character, but we have no idea what his purpose is right now. What's the point to all of this?

[Muta]

That last tag team gauntlet match was so much fun. FTR, Ospreay/Fletcher, the Outrunners, Acclaimed, MxM, Top Flight... lot of talent in that ring.

Fletcher is going to be a star one day.

[SuperMatt18]

AEW elevating the tag division would be good for business.

The tag division was one of the best things about AEW early on, but lost a lot of momentum when they introduced the trios titles (and the ROH stuff)

[Ozy_Flame]

Right on with the Fletcher love! Also, the Outrunners are OVER. Apparently they're outselling Swerve in the merch department.

[Inferno]

Either Survivor Series is selling out quick or the presale is messed up. It took me 5 minutes to get through the queue and there's barely anything left.