[News] Jack Eichel Surgery And Comeback Thread

[Roof-Daddy]

This will probably go the way of ROR with potential to be even worse as Eichel is even better than ROR, and he's not just in our conference but our division.

"ROR is a career loser, loses everywhere he goes"
"ROR isn't worth his cap hit, he's over rated"
"ROR said he is losing his love for hockey, steer clear"

ROR gets traded for peanuts to a WC team and is their #1C now and won the Conn Smythe for them.

My bet is Eichel makes us all regret Treliving once again didn't step up and get the rarely available #1C

[Flames_Gimp]

I was in the get Eichel camp and this thread is just rubbing salt in the wound, Tre could have got it done. I hope it doesn't work out for Vegas

[Knightslayer]

Originally Posted by 2macinnis2

Look I see people with degenerative cervical spine disease every day and have done hundreds of surgeries comparable to the one Eichel had done. Of those, the majority of patients have more than one problem with their spines and unfortunately most don’t return to their 100% baseline (which for those who aren’t pro athletes, is an acceptable result usually). There are some who have very good looking spines except one problem, and if that were Eichel, I think more teams would have been in the fray.

I think when you can’t even get a non-lottery protected first rounder for a player that is arguably better than the majority of #1 overall picks from the last decade, it speaks volumes about what how his medical condition was weighed by those in the know. If I were the Flames neurosurgeon, and I was brought films of a player with a truly ‘bad neck,’ I would be clear in telling the team the likelihood of the player having a long, pain and injury free career is probably low. I think that’s why the return for Buffalo was so bad.

Of course, like everyone else not in the know, I’m just putting out my best educated guess.

One last point… on ADR. That procedure is also generally a better fit for patients with good looking necks but one disc herniation. I wonder if some of the Sabres hesitation was that the anatomy wasn’t ideal for the procedure, which if it is the case, is a really bad sign for his long term prognosis.

Great post man, thanks for sharing your knowledge.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Biased post is biased.
Krebs is a quality prospect. Full stop.
He tracks to be a better NHLer than Dube.
History will tell but when you label their package as "junk" it is designed to suggest somehow Tree screwed up.

I stated several times along the way that if Krebs was put on the table that it would like be over. So this isn't revisionist history by me.

Have you watched him in pro games? He's got one PP goal in the AHL in 10 games, of his 10 apples 7 of them were in 2 blowout wins against bad teams. in 13 NHL games he has one assist, he's not 18, he turns 21 in 2 months.

Dube at his age had 19g-57a AHL points and 7g-14a NHL points.

Krebs is a muffin, he looked good in junior because of his skating but that's against junior players, he's small and has a very weak shot, he looks more like Rob Schremp(without a good shot) than some future star to me, he'll have to transform himself even to become an NHL regular IMO.

For the record I would have given up Lindholm, Valimaki, prospect and protected 1st for a player that could very well change the fortunes of this team. Zero chance Buffalo doesn't take this.

Lets agree to re-visit this in a year.

[Monahammer]

I was one of the people who wanted eichel most but let's let it go. It's done. It's not happening. There is only pain for us down this path so let's not take it.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I was one of the people who wanted eichel most but let's let it go. It's done. It's not happening. There is only pain for us down this path so let's not take it.

Existence is pain. Especially for a Flames fan.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Have you watched him in pro games? He's got one PP goal in the AHL in 10 games, of his 10 apples 7 of them were in 2 blowout wins against bad teams. in 13 NHL games he has one assist, he's not 18, he turns 21 in 2 months.

Dube at his age had 19g-57a AHL points and 7g-14a NHL points.

Krebs is a muffin, he looked good in junior because of his skating but that's against junior players, he's small and has a very weak shot, he looks more like Rob Schremp(without a good shot) than some future star to me, he'll have to transform himself even to become an NHL regular IMO.

For the record I would have given up Lindholm, Valimaki, prospect and protected 1st for a player that could very well change the fortunes of this team. Zero chance Buffalo doesn't take this.

Lets agree to re-visit this in a year.

It’s not about what he is now because he’s not a finished product. It’s about what he will be or more accurately what Buffalo thinks he will be
And I don’t agree with your take that there is no chance Buffalo doesn’t take that deal. It’s largely Lindholm and stuff

[ClubFlames]

If you want to shart on Brad that's fine, he has made few mistakes like every other GM and his time is running out but let's not ignore the fact that Buffalo was reportedly hell bent on Krebs and Tuch (lifelong Sabres fan) to make sure that newly acquired players don't leave after 1 year aka Matthew Tkachuk leaving as an RFA. What sort of package or an overpayment should Brad have offered to acquire Eichel?

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by ClubFlames

If you want to shart on Brad that's fine, he has made few mistakes like every other GM and his time is running out but let's not ignore the fact that Buffalo was reportedly hell bent on Krebs and Tuch (lifelong Sabres fan) to make sure that newly acquired players don't leave after 1 year aka Matthew Tkachuk leaving as an RFA. What sort of package or an overpayment should Brad have offered to acquire Eichel?

I believe it was reported that Buffalo asked about both Tkachuk and Mangiapane - Calgary wasn't interested.

That is just plain ridiculous as both those players shouldn't have been untouchable for Eichel.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by keenan87

I believe it was reported that Buffalo asked about both Tkachuk and Mangiapane - Calgary wasn't interested.

That is just plain ridiculous as both those players shouldn't have been untouchable for Eichel.

These things get reported with very little context.
It has also been speculated that the reporting that Tkachuk wasn't offered or considered has been damage control after the Flames didn't get the player to avoid an issue with Tkachuk.
Or we don't know in what context the Sabres asked about Tkachuk.
If the Flames offered Monahan+Dube+Zary+1st the Sabres could have said "cool - swap out Monahan for Tkachuk" and that's what the Flames declined.

We just don't know enough to judge if the Flames made a bad call or not. So folks will look at it in a manner that supports their historic positions and biases (myself included).

It's part of the problem with the short and quick reporting. All we know is the Sabres asked about the inclusion of those players and the Flames weren't interested. That's not a lot to truly judge the situation.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by keenan87

I believe it was reported that Buffalo asked about both Tkachuk and Mangiapane - Calgary wasn't interested.

That is just plain ridiculous as both those players shouldn't have been untouchable for Eichel.

No - it wasn’t reported. Some pundit said he imagined that they did.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

No - it wasn’t reported. Some pundit said he imagined that they did.

Unless Friedman is a random pundit?

[direwolf]

People are still bitching and moaning about this? It's over, folks. It's time to move on.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

These things get reported with very little context.
It has also been speculated that the reporting that Tkachuk wasn't offered or considered has been damage control after the Flames didn't get the player to avoid an issue with Tkachuk.
Or we don't know in what context the Sabres asked about Tkachuk.
If the Flames offered Monahan+Dube+Zary+1st the Sabres could have said "cool - swap out Monahan for Tkachuk" and that's what the Flames declined.

We just don't know enough to judge if the Flames made a bad call or not. So folks will look at it in a manner that supports their historic positions and biases (myself included).

It's part of the problem with the short and quick reporting. All we know is the Sabres asked about the inclusion of those players and the Flames weren't interested. That's not a lot to truly judge the situation.

In any scenario, Flames were getting the best player in the deal and someone who instantly becomes most valuable asset in the organization. Definitely an injury risk but it sounds like Flames were comfortable with the treatment.

No idea what was offered and I know you're just spitballing but if Flames thought a package of 2nd and 3rd liners was going to get it done, maybe Friedman was right and they weren't close. Unfortunately it wasn't Doug Risebrough on the other side.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Unless Friedman is a random pundit?

Friedman wasn’t the person who said it, and no one said they knew they were. It was “I think they offered…”. They were guessing.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Existence is pain. Especially for a Flames fan.

‘Life is pain, Highness. Anyone who says differently is selling something.’
— William Goldman, The Princess Bride

[AT77]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I mean he wasn't that before so it would be quite the comeback next season

I would argue that he was definitely trending in that 100+ point player direction had it not been for the covid shortened season then the injury. The year that covid hit, he was in pace for 43 goals & 94 points, so just shy of 100.

I would also argue that all of the above players that I mentioned were drafted into a much better spot. MacKinnon with the Avs whilst they still had O’Reilly and Duchene and now playing with Landeskog, Rantenen, and Makar. Matthews coming into a core with Marner and Nylander, then having Tavares join them. And although Edmonton was a complete mess, McDavid and Draisaitl still had each other. Eichel has never been able to play consistently with players of that caliber. He was drafted to a team that was far worse off than any of those teams, and could never get their act together to surround him with proper talent on a consistent basis.

Now he gets to consistently play with star players such as Stone, Pacioretty, Theodore, and Pietrangelo, as well as a solid top AND bottom 6 as Vegas has great depth. I would not be surprised at all if he turns into a consistent 100+ point player, and I honestly believe he will. We’ve yet to see the best of Eichel, but we will soon.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by AT77

I would argue that he was definitely trending in that 100+ point player direction had it not been for the covid shortened season then the injury. The year that covid hit, he was in pace for 43 goals & 94 points, so just shy of 100.

I would also argue that all of the above players that I mentioned were drafted into a much better spot. MacKinnon with the Avs whilst they still had O’Reilly and Duchene and now playing with Landeskog, Rantenen, and Makar. Matthews coming into a core with Marner and Nylander, then having Tavares join them. And although Edmonton was a complete mess, McDavid and Draisaitl still had each other. Eichel has never been able to play consistently with players of that caliber. He was drafted to a team that was far worse off than any of those teams, and could never get their act together to surround him with proper talent on a consistent basis.

Now he gets to consistently play with star players such as Stone, Pacioretty, Theodore, and Pietrangelo, as well as a solid bottom 6 as Vegas has great depth. I would not be surprised at all if he turns into a consistent 100+ point player, and I honestly believe he will. We’ve yet to see the best of Eichel, but we will soon.

Minus 12M more salary

Vegas is not just adding Eichel...their depth will be tested big time

[AT77]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Minus 12M more salary

Vegas is not just adding Eichel...their depth will be tested big time

You are right, however he will still be playing on a much better team, with better players, in a better system, with a great coaching staff. I really do believe he’ll shine in that environment. Not to mention the better place he will be in mentally playing for Vegas.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Minus 12M more salary

Vegas is not just adding Eichel...their depth will be tested big time

Darryl? Is that you?