Done with Consumer WiFi solutions...

[CroFlames]

So I got a Dream Machine! I think there are some units left at www.simplysecured.ca

They have a brick and mortar store on the west side of downtown.

I’m wondering if you guys can recommend which access points to get for a typical two storey suburban home?

Huge price variance and I don’t want to be overspending if I don’t need to. But also don’t want to buy junk.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

So I got a Dream Machine! I think there are some units left at www.simplysecured.ca

They have a brick and mortar store on the west side of downtown.

I’m wondering if you guys can recommend which access points to get for a typical two storey suburban home?

Huge price variance and I don’t want to be overspending if I don’t need to. But also don’t want to buy junk.

The Dream Machine has a pretty powerful AP built into it, so you likely only need one more AP to cover your whole house. I'd just buy whatever Ubiquiti AP you can find so it integrates seamlessly

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

So I got a Dream Machine! I think there are some units left at www.simplysecured.ca

They have a brick and mortar store on the west side of downtown.

I’m wondering if you guys can recommend which access points to get for a typical two storey suburban home?

Huge price variance and I don’t want to be overspending if I don’t need to. But also don’t want to buy junk.

Like it really depends on a number of factors specific to your house. How many sq ft is your house, how many smart home devices, and are these devices compatible with 2.4Ghz only or can they also do 5Ghz.

If you have a lot of legacy 2.4Ghz devices, or have lots of devices at longer range from your APs i.e. cameras on an external garage where you don't intend to put an AP, then I would go with something like the U6 LR. The U6LRs are going to give you a more stable connection in most cases.

If you are more concerned about speed and don't have a lot of spots where you are planning on putting APs or devices won't be too far from the AP, then just the U6 Pro will do.

If you are going to be relatively close to your APs, and you aren't looking for super high speeds something like the U6 Lite will be just fine for you.

I have security cameras in my detached garage where a Lite wouldn't cut it but my house is more than completely covered by a couple of U6 LRs.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

The Dream Machine has a pretty powerful AP built into it, so you likely only need one more AP to cover your whole house. I'd just buy whatever Ubiquiti AP you can find so it integrates seamlessly

The caveat to this advice is that it depends where the UDM is located. If you're plugging in beside your Shaw modem and your Shaw modem (like mine) lives in your basement utility room, you aren't going to want to rely on just the UDM's AP alone.

That said, I have a USG 3P (and a spare in case it goes belly up), and I cover our 2,700 sq-ft three-storey home (including basement) with a UAP AC Pro, and two UAP AC Mesh units. One Mesh AP is in our master bedroom nearest the window, and the other is bolted to the garage in order to wireless mesh with the bedroom AP. We have no deadspots on the property which kicks ass. Despite being in a very dense residential neighbourhood, and we have zero issues with interference from competing networks and APs.

[FlameOn]

I'm impressed with how much range these APs have. I tested my U6LRs after I first installed them on the cell phone Wifi Analyzer and 20m away from my house I was still getting 2/5 bars and usable signal. Mind you I only live in a 1700sq-ft place in a mid town neighbourhood. Lots are small and duplexs pretty packed in here so lots of wifi APs that shoulda drowned out the signal a bit.

[CroFlames]

Yeah stock is sparse these days.

I suppose I’ll go buy whatever AP is in stock and see how things go. Might add more or I might get lucky and be covered with just one.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

The caveat to this advice is that it depends where the UDM is located. If you're plugging in beside your Shaw modem and your Shaw modem (like mine) lives in your basement utility room, you aren't going to want to rely on just the UDM's AP alone.

That said, I have a USG 3P (and a spare in case it goes belly up), and I cover our 2,700 sq-ft three-storey home (including basement) with a UAP AC Pro, and two UAP AC Mesh units. One Mesh AP is in our master bedroom nearest the window, and the other is bolted to the garage in order to wireless mesh with the bedroom AP. We have no deadspots on the property which kicks ass. Despite being in a very dense residential neighbourhood, and we have zero issues with interference from competing networks and APs.

I got lucky and was able to snag 3 AP Pro's from work when we upgraded to Aruba. One on each floor of the house, which is overkill, but every corner of the house and the backyard have full bars

[CroFlames]

How come the AP Pro has two ethernet inputs, https://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX65651, whereas the LR version only has one https://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX65271?

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

How come the AP Pro has two ethernet inputs, https://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX65651, whereas the LR version only has one https://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX65271?

One is an input, the other is an output.

The AP Pro I have is in my office, so the PoE from the switch powers the AP and then the ethernet out goes to the powered switch in my office. What I should actually do at some point is change it around so the PoE powers the switch and uses the PoE passthrough port to continue on to the AP since I have 802.3at PoE+.

[flamesrule_kipper34]

Hi all,

I have a 4-level house (which includes a basement and the rooftop), plus outdoor backyard. The interior is basically 3,000 sq ft. I'm on Shaw 750 plan with their BlueCurve modem (no pods).

I'm trying to basically have great and stable speeds in every part of my home (interior and exterior) as best as possible. I'm in the process of making my home more smart and want to ensure what I decide to do is somewhat future proofed in handling ongoing demands.

Anyway, I had someone come out to do a look (at one point was looking at a control4 system, but won't go down that route now).

For networking they suggested:

• Mikrotik router: https://mikrotik.com/product/rb5009ug_s_in
• Mikrotik port switch: https://mikrotik.com/product/crs328_24p_4s_rm
• Two table-top access points (basement and second level): https://ca.store.ui.com/products/unifi-flexhd
• One in-wall access point (main level): https://ca.store.ui.com/products/unifi-in-wall-hd

First of all, I'd love suggestions/recommendations on the above if others have experience.

Secondly, I'm a complete novice in this...I've never done a networking set-up at a house (most I've ever had is a ISP modem and an amazon eero device to make a more stable connection in a home which had a lot of interference). So question is...how would one use all of this and what would connect to what (I don't understand the port switch vs. access points vs. router...n00b), installation and etc.?

Thoughts and comments would be appreciated!

[Hemi-Cuda]

If you're going with Ubiquiti for the access points, why don't you go with them for the gateway (router) and switch as well? That way everything is managed through one web portal. Also the access points you listed are older models that don't support the new WiFi 6 standard, I'd look at getting the AP WiFi 6 Lite or Pro depending on how many devices will be on your network

https://ca.store.ui.com/collections/...nifi-ap-6-lite

For the router, I'd also go with the Ubiquiti Dream Machine as it runs the UniFi OS without needing a separate server and it also has an access point built-in, so you can potentially cut down on 1 external AP

https://ca.store.ui.com/collections/...-dream-machine

As for how it all works, the flow would be ISP Modem > Router > Switch > Access Point. You'd have to contact your ISP to change how your modem is setup if using your own external router, and for a switch you'll definitely want one with PoE (Power over Ethernet) to power your access points

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by flamesrule_kipper34

Hi all,

I have a 4-level house (which includes a basement and the rooftop), plus outdoor backyard. The interior is basically 3,000 sq ft. I'm on Shaw 750 plan with their BlueCurve modem (no pods).

I'm trying to basically have great and stable speeds in every part of my home (interior and exterior) as best as possible. I'm in the process of making my home more smart and want to ensure what I decide to do is somewhat future proofed in handling ongoing demands.

Anyway, I had someone come out to do a look (at one point was looking at a control4 system, but won't go down that route now).

For networking they suggested:

• Mikrotik router: https://mikrotik.com/product/rb5009ug_s_in
• Mikrotik port switch: https://mikrotik.com/product/crs328_24p_4s_rm
• Two table-top access points (basement and second level): https://ca.store.ui.com/products/unifi-flexhd
• One in-wall access point (main level): https://ca.store.ui.com/products/unifi-in-wall-hd

First of all, I'd love suggestions/recommendations on the above if others have experience.

Secondly, I'm a complete novice in this...I've never done a networking set-up at a house (most I've ever had is a ISP modem and an amazon eero device to make a more stable connection in a home which had a lot of interference). So question is...how would one use all of this and what would connect to what (I don't understand the port switch vs. access points vs. router...n00b), installation and etc.?

Thoughts and comments would be appreciated!

That Mikrotik setup is overkill as hell, there is no way in hell you need a $615 24-port switch, nor a $300+ router at this point in time.

How new is the house? Is it fully wired with CAT5 or better with RJ45 ports (network ports), or are they terminated with telephone jacks? You can look in your utility room to see the cabling that they've run. I would terminate every CAT5 wire in that room into a patch panel or with RJ45 ends to plug directly into a switch. Then expanding your network coverage gets real easy from there because virtually any room can have a wireless access point that has a wired backhaul.

[flamesrule_kipper34]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

That Mikrotik setup is overkill as hell, there is no way in hell you need a $615 24-port switch, nor a $300+ router at this point in time.

How new is the house? Is it fully wired with CAT5 or better with RJ45 ports (network ports), or are they terminated with telephone jacks? You can look in your utility room to see the cabling that they've run. I would terminate every CAT5 wire in that room into a patch panel or with RJ45 ends to plug directly into a switch. Then expanding your network coverage gets real easy from there because virtually any room can have a wireless access point that has a wired backhaul.

Thanks for this! House is 2014, just took possession recently.

So I went to the basement utility room (and they used to have a control4 and security system), I see white cables which are a mix of cat5 and audio cables, blues which are cat5 and a few black which are cat6. Adding some pictures of what I see down there:






I went around the house and in summary here's what I found:

Primarily cat5 cables (no connectors) behind the face plates.


One RJ45 outlet on the second level (which is where I already have my ISP modem connected, not to that though of course).

Then I noticed in the kitchen I have one RJ45 connector (I assume they had something here in the past):


What are your thoughts on this set-up? Would it make sense to get a switch in the basement utility room and get RJ45 ends to plug directly into a switch for the various cat5/6 cords. And then get a couple of access points to connect for floor 2/3 to connect directly to the cat5's behind the face plates (put RJ45 connectors on them)?

If so, given my ISP modem is already on floor 2, how best to connect that to a new router? Have that on floor 2 as well, connect to that RJ45 port already available and have that go into the switch that I'd put in the basement utility room?

Sorry for any dumb questions, but appreciate yours and HC's advice and guidance so far!

[taxbuster]

How I'd approach this (mess):
First, I'd spend $50-75 and get a tone generator and map out the wiring. Who the hell leaves unterminated wires behind a wall plate?

As you go, tag 'em and label them. Dymo prints or otherwise. Some will (likely) be of no use to you, others will. Name the end points, and copy the name to the wiring in the basement. Keep a map.

If you're a noob to networking, you don't want Mikrotik. You'll never figure it out, and you have a high risk of misconfiguration.

*If* you're willing to do some reading and understanding and actually *want* to learn something about managing a network, the Ubiquiti Unifi gear is decent. Install, and upgrade ONLY with a working backup that is NOT stored on the gear but in a location you can reach any time (your PC is fine). Keep it simple at first, with one or two access points at most. Wire and put in a switch where you can locate most of your generic gear and try to keep it in one location if possible. The less WiFi you have, the faster and less congested your system will be. (And be easier to manage.)

The Ubiquiti Unifi system is rated as a "prosumer" system...so it is capable of advanced setup, but also is reasonably easy to manage...reasonably easy, but not necessarily "simple".

If you want "simple", go for some straightforward networking kit - ask at Memory Express - they can direct you to something not requiring much tech knowledge.



Once you actually understand where ALL the wiring goes, you'll be in a position to know what to do. Ask here, for sure. There's lots of people who can assist.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by flamesrule_kipper34

Hi all,

I have a 4-level house (which includes a basement and the rooftop), plus outdoor backyard. The interior is basically 3,000 sq ft. I'm on Shaw 750 plan with their BlueCurve modem (no pods).

I'm trying to basically have great and stable speeds in every part of my home (interior and exterior) as best as possible. I'm in the process of making my home more smart and want to ensure what I decide to do is somewhat future proofed in handling ongoing demands.

Anyway, I had someone come out to do a look (at one point was looking at a control4 system, but won't go down that route now).

For networking they suggested:

• Mikrotik router: https://mikrotik.com/product/rb5009ug_s_in
• Mikrotik port switch: https://mikrotik.com/product/crs328_24p_4s_rm
• Two table-top access points (basement and second level): https://ca.store.ui.com/products/unifi-flexhd
• One in-wall access point (main level): https://ca.store.ui.com/products/unifi-in-wall-hd

First of all, I'd love suggestions/recommendations on the above if others have experience.

Secondly, I'm a complete novice in this...I've never done a networking set-up at a house (most I've ever had is a ISP modem and an amazon eero device to make a more stable connection in a home which had a lot of interference). So question is...how would one use all of this and what would connect to what (I don't understand the port switch vs. access points vs. router...n00b), installation and etc.?

Thoughts and comments would be appreciated!

If you're a newbie, I do not suggest you buy a ubiquiti unifi system right off the bat. Based on what I understand you might have a hell of a time with the set up if you don't know what to do. Instead, I'd suggest the more newbie friendly amplifi line.


AmpliFi Gamer’s Edition WiFi System by Ubiquiti https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07KTQKLW2/...984G69ENPKGXKN


Or


AmpliFi HD https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B01NAFVWBJ/...Y7B3G7P4G5JRA6


There's a lot of others who really like their Unifi set up. The main two complaints about it that I've heard is price and in some situations, non tech savvy people spend days without internet because they can't even figure out how to reboot/restart the system.


Amplifi as far as I understand is in the middle. Not as many advanced features as a Unifi set up, but slightly more than the average TP link, Orbi and Google mesh set ups.




I personally use dual amplifi HD routers and I am very happy with them. Set up is dead easy. I love the extra features it has vs the Deco my parents have. These routers were perfect when I lived in a place that was around 2000 sq ft of living space. But I now live in a 2400 sq ft house with almost 4000 sq ft of space including basement (800/1600/1600 cathedral type layout). The routers are positioned in the utility room in basement and one upstairs on the east side of my home. I have shaw 600 and the speeds are very good overall in the entire home (160-330 Mbps ish on wifi depending on device processing power). The only time it is slightly lacking is when I am in the back yard which is west ish and basically the furthest possiblebpoint from my mesh routers. By lacking I mean "40-110 Mbps... Oh boo hoo first world problems, I am impatient" kind of thing. I am considering adding a third amplifi HD router to service the west side of my house so that the internet speeds on that side of the house plus back yard improve and bring the overall speeds from very good to excellent, inside and outside my house.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

If you're a newbie, I do not suggest you buy a ubiquiti unifi system right off the bat. Based on what I understand you might have a hell of a time with the set up if you don't know what to do. Instead, I'd suggest the more newbie friendly amplifi line.


AmpliFi Gamer’s Edition WiFi System by Ubiquiti https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07KTQKLW2/...984G69ENPKGXKN


Or


AmpliFi HD https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B01NAFVWBJ/...Y7B3G7P4G5JRA6


There's a lot of others who really like their Unifi set up. The main two complaints about it that I've heard is price and in some situations, non tech savvy people spend days without internet because they can't even figure out how to reboot/restart the system.


Amplifi as far as I understand is in the middle. Not as many advanced features as a Unifi set up, but slightly more than the average TP link, Orbi and Google mesh set ups.




I personally use dual amplifi HD routers and I am very happy with them. Set up is dead easy. I love the extra features it has vs the Deco my parents have. These routers were perfect when I lived in a place that was around 2000 sq ft of living space. But I now live in a 2400 sq ft house with almost 4000 sq ft of space including basement (800/1600/1600 cathedral type layout). The routers are positioned in the utility room in basement and one upstairs on the east side of my home. I have shaw 600 and the speeds are very good overall in the entire home (160-330 Mbps ish on wifi depending on device processing power). The only time it is slightly lacking is when I am in the back yard which is west ish and basically the furthest possiblebpoint from my mesh routers. By lacking I mean "40-110 Mbps... Oh boo hoo first world problems, I am impatient" kind of thing. I am considering adding a third amplifi HD router to service the west side of my house so that the internet speeds on that side of the house plus back yard improve and bring the overall speeds from very good to excellent, inside and outside my house.

Agree - the Amplifi line is a dead easy setup and "reasonably" robust system. Not as flexible as some might want but for someone who doesn't want any fuss and bother...it's pretty damn good.

Still...the secret of decent WiFi is starting simple, and adding as you go...too many APs (usually because people think they need one on each floor) just causes more interference. Start simply, identify dead or poor spots, play with placement, and add only as needed.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

How come the AP Pro has two ethernet inputs, https://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX65651, whereas the LR version only has one https://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX65271?

What the, these unifi AP are how much each??? I think I have one that was lightly used collecting dust somewhere. Maybe I should dig it up and see if anyone is interested in it.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

What the, these unifi AP are how much each??? I think I have one that was lightly used collecting dust somewhere. Maybe I should dig it up and see if anyone is interested in it.

The LR has a pretty specific use case, and most consumers aren't it.

I use ONE Flex-HD ($259) in my house and it covers the entire house decently. Now my base is 30'x30' or so, with the HD on the ground floor, and my second floor and basement both have coverage from the one unit. What do I get? Depending on location in the house from 80 Mbps to around 500 Mbps.

I have one UAP AC Mesh outside, about 200' from the house (we're on 2.5 ac) and it covers the vast majority of the property.

But I don't expect, want or need GB speeds every second of every day in every corner of my realm. I have ethernet for that.

[flamesrule_kipper34]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

How I'd approach this (mess):
First, I'd spend $50-75 and get a tone generator and map out the wiring. Who the hell leaves unterminated wires behind a wall plate?

As you go, tag 'em and label them. Dymo prints or otherwise. Some will (likely) be of no use to you, others will. Name the end points, and copy the name to the wiring in the basement. Keep a map.

If you're a noob to networking, you don't want Mikrotik. You'll never figure it out, and you have a high risk of misconfiguration.

*If* you're willing to do some reading and understanding and actually *want* to learn something about managing a network, the Ubiquiti Unifi gear is decent. Install, and upgrade ONLY with a working backup that is NOT stored on the gear but in a location you can reach any time (your PC is fine). Keep it simple at first, with one or two access points at most. Wire and put in a switch where you can locate most of your generic gear and try to keep it in one location if possible. The less WiFi you have, the faster and less congested your system will be. (And be easier to manage.)

The Ubiquiti Unifi system is rated as a "prosumer" system...so it is capable of advanced setup, but also is reasonably easy to manage...reasonably easy, but not necessarily "simple".

If you want "simple", go for some straightforward networking kit - ask at Memory Express - they can direct you to something not requiring much tech knowledge.



Once you actually understand where ALL the wiring goes, you'll be in a position to know what to do. Ask here, for sure. There's lots of people who can assist.

I really appreciate this. Tbh, I definitely want to learn hence I'm willing to go a bit above and beyond than just the pure wireless wifi mesh sort of system routez genuinely curious to understand what I can do with the existing infrastructure and maximize what's doable and try to learn a ton along the way.

That being said, once I create this map would it make sense to move everything down to my utility room?

ISP modem, hook up the gateway/router to it and then the switch to that (along with what I've now identified appropriately as the useful unterminated wires capped with RJ45 connectors)?

At that stage I may just do one AP hooked into the second or third level and see where that gets me and if needed as a second AP to the other location.

Does the above approach make sense?

And sorry when you say back-up, what do you mean?

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by flamesrule_kipper34

I really appreciate this. Tbh, I definitely want to learn hence I'm willing to go a bit above and beyond than just the pure wireless wifi mesh sort of system routez genuinely curious to understand what I can do with the existing infrastructure and maximize what's doable and try to learn a ton along the way.

That being said, once I create this map would it make sense to move everything down to my utility room?

ISP modem, hook up the gateway/router to it and then the switch to that (along with what I've now identified appropriately as the useful unterminated wires capped with RJ45 connectors)?

At that stage I may just do one AP hooked into the second or third level and see where that gets me and if needed as a second AP to the other location.

Does the above approach make sense?

And sorry when you say back-up, what do you mean?

Whatever you decide... god speed. There's so many things you will have to figure out for your home infrastructure. Sometimes I feel networking professionals vs IT professionals are basically like the vets vs doctors comparison.

I think he means a firmware backup with your settings configured into it? That way if you mess up your systems, you can reload/restore and start over rather than try and reverse navigate your way out of the mess. I consider myself a novice/slightly advanced for things tech and I enjoy challenges, but networking just wasn't really fun to learn for me. It's a crazy combination of different layouts, different hardware, different software/interfaces and different "options". There's hundreds of ways to do it well, hundreds of ways to do it stupidly but functional and hundreds of ways to do it bad and non-functional. I thought I'd like it, but it honestly I just felt straight up stressed and successes felt like a sigh of relief rather than a sense of accomplishment. I'd only suggest taking on that big of a project only if you won't be killed by someone needing internet at all times and if you have a few days of basically uninterrupted time to do, debug and optimize. I don't feel you can dabble in networking stuff. You have to be all in hell or high water. Things are very different now than when we used to flash Tomato on a router.

I like computers as much as the next guy, but when it comes to networking stuff, that's a whole different ball game of complexity and interconnectivity navigation. I honestly don't bother with the stuff I do not know unless I have a networking guru buddy nearby with a few hours/a weekend to burn. But that's just me.

My concern is that you're potentially trying to learn too many things at once. Unlike other things, you can typically only afford a few hours of networking problems at a time without pissing off yourself and/or technology illiterate individuals. Myself, I would prefer learning one segment at a time vs learning them all at the same time, but there are others who think it's easier to learn all of them at the same time.


How I would probably approach your situation might be something like this:

Layout:
1. Map out the wiring and terminate them into a patch panel.
2. Shaw modem to bridge mode
3. Modem to Router
4A. Router to patch panel (if only sending up one or two connections)
4B. Router to switch in utility room/patch cables to patch panel plus additional items such as smart hubs, server etc.
5. Switch(es) at upstairs panels for ethernet (ie: entertainment room, office etc.)
6. AP at a strategic location (ie: at panel or with switch).
7. Devices at the end (into switches or panels)

Hardware:
1. What type of switch to use (number of ports, POE, speeds etc.)
2. What router/AP or Mesh system to use (ie: Brand, router-router, router-AP, wireless bridge etc.)
3. Server? NAS?
4. What devices are being plugged in? (ie: Hubs, computers, consoles, etc.)

Software/firmware/settings:
1. Not always is the latest firmware the greatest. You might have to figure out which is the potential "LTS" you want to roll with. Flash to appropriate firmware/software updates to limit security vulnerability.
2.You have to figure out which settings and features you actually can benefit from in the network settings and figure out the optimum settings. This can take hours to do. If you don't know what it is, don't touch it. Ask or do crazy research before tinkering with it.
3. Multiple network layers/"design"? (ie: SSID for smart devices different than main network, private SSID for you, SSID for everyone else etc.)
4. Other software/interfaces to set up for additional hardware in the network. Things like NAS/Server OS, Plex, Smart hub(s), casting, audio, sharing etc.

... etc.

Personally, if possible, I'd start out with a set and forget mesh network for the networking stuff kinda like training wheels. Once I figure out how everything else is going and am happy with the way it's chugging along, I'd upgrade the mesh routers with the set up you really want.

Honestly, I'm not even going to say that what I suggested is actually completely "accurate" and/or "efficient". I'm sure others might disagree with my concerns about the complexity. I'm quite certain my own set up at home is more "stupid but functional" rather than a well designed and optimized set up and that's with the dead easy AmpliFi routers hooked up and additional hours and hours of tinkering with things and solving random issues.