[Rumour] TSN: Hanifin decision expected in coming days. D market waits on Tanev

[Calgary4LIfe]

I remember reading or hearing somewhere that Hanifin in fact never stated that he wants out of Calgary, or even that he wants to play in the USA only. It was inferences made by some pundits, no?



I would still rather trade him than sign him, but I also think that if he specifically wanted out, we would be neck-deep in the 'Hanifin Sweepstakes' talk right now.

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Fair....but that was 7 months ago and not from the horses mouth so to speak.

Not saying this is the case, but things have changed drastically since then, so a change of heart isnt out of the realm of possibility.

That being said, its pretty likely he is going to be moved.

This team will sorely miss him though and will spend years trying to find a replacement.....hopefully they can do so internally.

True. I can’t remember Hanifin himself stating in an interview that he wants to play in the United States. But I don’t think the hearsay is 7 months old.
Do you listen to Barn Burner? I listen all the time, and Seravalli has stated recently that Hanifin wants to go back to the United States.

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I remember reading or hearing somewhere that Hanifin in fact never stated that he wants out of Calgary, or even that he wants to play in the USA only. It was inferences made by some pundits, no?



I would still rather trade him than sign him, but I also think that if he specifically wanted out, we would be neck-deep in the 'Hanifin Sweepstakes' talk right now.

I doubt that. Friedman has reported in the past that Hanifin told the Flames he wants to return to the USA. Seravalli says this all the time on Barn Burner.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

What a weird argument, don’t sign players past the age of 34 because they do not age well = do not sign Hanifin to a contract where 95% of the contract will take place when he is 34 or younger. He will not even really hit the age you are concerned about under this next contract.

It's more about timing. We can't really use those prime years very effectively. By the time the Flames could really use his help he will be starting that decline, and the Flames will need the money for the boatload of younger players jumping on to the team now.

Also for every 1 ancient guy pointed out in here that can still play, there's about 8 guys that start dropping like a rock in their late 20s.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Giordano, Weegar, Backlund, Brodie, Tanev, Coleman, Frolik, and Markstrom all say hi.

They weren't all eating up that much room from the cap either.

[bluejays]

Also not fully buying most pro athletes aren't driven by money. If there's a hierarchy it's:
Money and taxes - 10
City/Lifestyle - 8
Winning - 7
Friends/Management on team - 7
Stress of the media - 6

Again, just my general thought on these things and not reflective of Hanifin or anyone in particular. Any one of these can be adjusted based on the situation. I bet if nobody wants the lifestyle of Buffalo or Detroit, a few extra million would sway them pretty quickly to think otherwise, for most of these guys.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Fair....but that was 7 months ago and not from the horses mouth so to speak.

Come on Tranny, you can certainly see this is a silly discussion. Of course these guys are mercenaries, it's the way the way the whole system has evolved. They will happily go to whoever pays them the most money and say the same things wherever they go and the fans lap it up. It's why you can have guys that were hated bitter rivals of one team ending up playing for the very teams they hated so much in the past (see Grant Fuhr, Steve Smith, Todd Bertuzzi, Bryan Marchment, and so on). If you can't even acknowledge what these guys you are clearly lost in your fandom.

On what players have said about the city they play in, you don't have to go much further than the recent history from the players exiting this very team. Both Gaudreau and Tkachuk prattled on about how much they loved the city, the fans, and so on, only to happily move on to greener pastures and say the exact same things about the new places they play. These guys are carefully schooled on how to handle the media and what to say. These comments are 99% wrought answers to placate the fans. What else do you think these guys are going to say in the media? Comments about what players feel about the current place they play mean nothing. The only thing that matters is they live up to their contracts, represent the team and the city well, and they play hard as long as they wear the team's colors. Anything else is really irrelevant and doesn't play into whether a player comes or goes. If they want to be here that is a huge bonus as they might show a little more pride for the sweater than most, but the reality is that for the modern player the jersey is something they are going to change many times during their careers.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Redrum

It's more about timing. We can't really use those prime years very effectively. By the time the Flames could really use his help he will be starting that decline, and the Flames will need the money for the boatload of younger players jumping on to the team now.

Also for every 1 ancient guy pointed out in here that can still play, there's about 8 guys that start dropping like a rock in their late 20s.

Most dmen like Hanifin (top 20-30 in the league in even strength scoring, solid on the PK) don’t drop like a rock in their late 20’s. It is the more mediocre players that have the drop off, not guys that year in and year out are in the top 10-15% of all the players at their position.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Most dmen like Hanifin (top 20-30 in the league in even strength scoring, solid on the PK) don’t drop like a rock in their late 20’s. It is the more mediocre players that have the drop off, not guys that year in and year out are in the top 10-15% of all the players at their position.

Yeah, the stats about players’ primes and decline in play have to be adjusted when you are talking about high end players. Absent injuries, the best players contribute way longer than the average players.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by bluejays

They weren't all eating up that much room from the cap either.

Gio's contract was 9.45% of the cap until the age of 38, sure it's less than Huberdeau's 12.73%, but is more than Kadri's 8.48%. Weegar was 7.58%, signed right after Kadri. Also, the Kadri contract doesn't look too bad right now, he's definitely worth his price tag. Backlund signed for 7.15% of the cap as well, that's his current contract that takes him to the age of 35.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by bluejays

They weren't all eating up that much room from the cap either.

Gio had the highest cap percentage hit for almost his whole contract.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Gio's contract was 9.45% of the cap until the age of 38, sure it's less than Huberdeau's 12.73%, but is more than Kadri's 8.48%. Weegar was 7.58%, signed right after Kadri. Also, the Kadri contract doesn't look too bad right now, he's definitely worth his price tag. Backlund signed for 7.15% of the cap as well, that's his current contract that takes him to the age of 35.

Facts cool. So back to the underlying issue, with ~21% of our current cap used with Kadri and Huberdeau who we're probably stuck with, going into a rebuild where today's Zary, Wolf and others drafted will need to be signed, are we comfortable going in with 30% of our cap tied for 7 or so years with Huberdeau, Kadri and Hanifin? I like Hanifin the most of those three to be clear, but we've messed ourselves up by having those first two tied in and in a cap world it's a mess to sign more to long term deals when we'll soon enough have young guys to account for who will need to get paid.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by bluejays

Facts cool. So back to the underlying issue, with ~21% of our current cap used with Kadri and Huberdeau who we're probably stuck with, going into a rebuild where today's Zary, Wolf and others drafted will need to be signed, are we comfortable going in with 30% of our cap tied for 7 or so years with Huberdeau, Kadri and Hanifin? I like Hanifin the most of those three to be clear, but we've messed ourselves up by having those first two tied in and in a cap world it's a mess to sign more to long term deals when we'll soon enough have young guys to account for who will need to get paid.

Well the percentage is not static. By the time you actually have tonne concerned about it that percentage is probably down to 25-27% and dropping. I would be very comfortable with that percentage myself, definitely don’t think that Hanifin tips it to something unsustainable.

[bluejays]

Totally acknowledge the cap will go up by a certain percentage every few years but I don't know how much it's projected to go up in the future. I just think in the cap world you have to be super careful who you give the big money too, with the term and when. I personally am not comfortable with that much tied up with three guys. If you got rid of one of Kadri or Huberdeau, sure, but that mix, I have to pass.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by bluejays

It’s rare that slowdowns or injuries don’t happen though. At $8M per year to take him to 35 is a bit much. Would much rather the assets in return at that cost.

I see Hanifin as a #2/3 until 32-33 then a solid top 4 choice until the end of that contract. Just doesn't have the style of play that relies on explosive speed, power, or even high end skills. Those types of defenders typically don't fade early.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by blankall

I see Hanifin as a #2/3 until 32-33 then a solid top 4 choice until the end of that contract. Just doesn't have the style of play that relies on explosive speed, power, or even high end skills. Those types of defenders typically don't fade early.

Fair. So is his $8.5 for 8 years worth that? For the record, I see him as a 2/3 as well. I just don't see him worth that money/term combo. I'd much rather pay the guy $10M for 3 years then have him locked for 8 years when Kadri and Huberdeau are locked in.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Come on Tranny, you can certainly see this is a silly discussion. Of course these guys are mercenaries, it's the way the way the whole system has evolved. They will happily go to whoever pays them the most money and say the same things wherever they go and the fans lap it up. It's why you can have guys that were hated bitter rivals of one team ending up playing for the very teams they hated so much in the past (see Grant Fuhr, Steve Smith, Todd Bertuzzi, Bryan Marchment, and so on). If you can't even acknowledge what these guys you are clearly lost in your fandom.

On what players have said about the city they play in, you don't have to go much further than the recent history from the players exiting this very team. Both Gaudreau and Tkachuk prattled on about how much they loved the city, the fans, and so on, only to happily move on to greener pastures and say the exact same things about the new places they play. These guys are carefully schooled on how to handle the media and what to say. These comments are 99% wrought answers to placate the fans. What else do you think these guys are going to say in the media? Comments about what players feel about the current place they play mean nothing. The only thing that matters is they live up to their contracts, represent the team and the city well, and they play hard as long as they wear the team's colors. Anything else is really irrelevant and doesn't play into whether a player comes or goes. If they want to be here that is a huge bonus as they might show a little more pride for the sweater than most, but the reality is that for the modern player the jersey is something they are going to change many times during their careers.

You conveniently left out the rest of what i posted...so yeah.

Im not even advocating he stay. Im saying if he does, its fine. He is a great player. This team is completely different than the one 7 months ago.

If not, the team will be searching for a guy just like him....and that could literally take years to do.

As for the bolded....who is it that can do that easier than anyone else with an extra year to offer?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by transplant99

As for the bolded....who is it that can do that easier than anyone else with an extra year to offer?

The team willing to pay the most, regardless of term?

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by bluejays

Fair. So is his $8.5 for 8 years worth that? For the record, I see him as a 2/3 as well. I just don't see him worth that money/term combo. I'd much rather pay the guy $10M for 3 years then have him locked for 8 years when Kadri and Huberdeau are locked in.

The short answer is "yes".

Every GM in the league would pay that for a top pairing defender at the age of 27. Many GMs will pay a fair bit more than that because top pair D almost never become available on July 1 and never this young.

We should be thrilled if he signs here, especially if he stays under $9M (lol Nurse). It means he wants to be here and it creates a core with Weegar (and Andersson for now) where the young guys can come in and develop with talented pros.

Hanifin getting traded is also fine because we will get great assets back in return but it creates an immediate hole in the roster that will be tough to fill, especially if Tanev is also traded in the next few weeks. At that point Pachal is in our top 4 and Gilbert & Oesterle becomes regulars in the roster (yikes).

It is also worth noting that Kylington is also heading to UFA this summer and needs to be signed.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Wolven

The short answer is "yes".

Every GM in the league would pay that for a top pairing defender at the age of 27. Many GMs will pay a fair bit more than that because top pair D almost never become available on July 1 and never this young.

We should be thrilled if he signs here, especially if he stays under $9M (lol Nurse). It means he wants to be here and it creates a core with Weegar (and Andersson for now) where the young guys can come in and develop with talented pros.

Hanifin getting traded is also fine because we will get great assets back in return but it creates an immediate hole in the roster that will be tough to fill, especially if Tanev is also traded in the next few weeks. At that point Pachal is in our top 4 and Gilbert & Oesterle becomes regulars in the roster (yikes).

It is also worth noting that Kylington is also heading to UFA this summer and needs to be signed.

I doubt it, remember Hanifin is not a #1 dman, at 8.5m that would make him 12th highest paid defenseman.

I guess we can wait and see,