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Old 02-18-2020, 08:45 PM   #41
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Yeah, Treliving never fixed the goalie problem properly, huge misstep by him for sure.....except wait, remember when he traded for Ben Bishop but the deal didnt go through because he was too busy being ####ing micromanaged by idiots?

Remember how many people said we dodged a bullet when Dallas traded for Bishop and then extended him? Go look at Bishops numbers the last 3 seasons in Dallas and tell me all about the bullet they apparently dodged again.
I’ll eat crow on that. We’d be a scary team.
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Old 02-18-2020, 08:50 PM   #42
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I'm not a big fan of the team's current construction - but I'm also not opposed to giving the group one more chance. A few weeks ago the idea of standing pat seemed like the worst outcome - but now - maybe it is the way to go.
You simply can't deal Brodie - you would be giving up the season. And while there is a rationale argument to be made that they should do that - that's a tough sell to owners, fans, and the other players in the room.
Philosophically sure, you can't deal brodie because you'd be giving up the season.

But, in some ways, that's already happened.

You have 2 pending UFA defenders. IMO, in a season where you're definitely not a strong team and may miss the playoffs, you're justified in dealing one of them. It will be bad if the Flames miss and neither guy has been dealt.

So, the options were to deal Hamonic or deal Brodie and circumstances have dictated that Brodie is the one to be dealt because Hamonic is injured. We know there has been intent to move Brodie for at least 7-8 months at this point, going back to the summer, so it would be a pretty bad situation to then have to lose him for nothing because you couldn't make a deal work at any point in the preceding year. It's not as though this has cropped up out of nowhere, the plan dating back to June has been to move Brodie for a top 6 forward. So to have a short term injury dictate a change in that plan would seem to me to be exceptionally bad management, both in not consumating a deal between now and the kadri deal, or because of a short term injury to an entirely different roster player.

The Flames could have dealt either one of them prior to two weeks ago, but they didn't and now the decision has largely been made for them.

To NOT deal Brodie because the other defenseman you could've/should've traded is now injured would be an absolutely terrible management decision.

They've made their bed, now it's time to lay in it. Get something for Brodie before you lose him to Free Agency.
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Old 02-18-2020, 08:52 PM   #43
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Not that they were in a totally comfortable spot with the inconsistency this year, but the Flames are in a tough spot NOW mainly because of Gio and Hamonic's recent injuries.
I think the Flames have at least one more win if we didn't have them out this last stretch, probably two (Chi and LA?). That would put them right at the top of the division with everyone healthy and then able to go after that forward or two.

But tough to justify the run and cost of a top 6 forward and maybe a depth guy when you have your best defenseman out as well as your 3/4 guy, for longer than you'd like.
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Old 02-18-2020, 08:56 PM   #44
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Philosophically sure, you can't deal brodie because you'd be giving up the season.

But, in some ways, that's already happened.

You have 2 pending UFA defenders. IMO, in a season where you're definitely not a strong team and may miss the playoffs, you're justified in dealing one of them. It will be bad if the Flames miss and neither guy has been dealt.

So, the options were to deal Hamonic or deal Brodie and circumstances have dictated that Brodie is the one to be dealt because Hamonic is injured. We know there has been intent to move Brodie for at least 7-8 months at this point, going back to the summer, so it would be a pretty bad situation to then have to lose him for nothing because you couldn't make a deal work at any point in the preceding year. It's not as though this has cropped up out of nowhere, the plan dating back to June has been to move Brodie for a top 6 forward. So to have a short term injury dictate a change in that plan would seem to me to be exceptionally bad management, both in not consumating a deal between now and the kadri deal, or because of a short term injury to an entirely different roster player.

The Flames could have dealt either one of them prior to two weeks ago, but they didn't and now the decision has largely been made for them.

To NOT deal Brodie because the other defenseman you could've/should've traded is now injured would be an absolutely terrible management decision.

They've made their bed, now it's time to lay in it. Get something for Brodie before you lose him to Free Agency.
I agree. You have to look at this from a June POV, and think will you be happy about letting either UFA walk without getting anything? It'll be yet another mistake in Treliving's tenure. By default, Brodie should be traded since he's the only UFA trade bait left that could bring in a return that helps the franchise tremendously.

Even if Brodie is traded, it doesn't mean the team has absolutely no chance making the playoffs. And keeping him doesn't guarantee it also. So better to roll the dice in getting something out of him while you can. The team is defensive heavy, so the players that can play are adequate for the meantime. And Gio and Hamonic could soon enough that the team is still in the playoff hunt, and they'll have enough impact in whether the team makes the playoffs or not.
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Old 02-18-2020, 08:58 PM   #45
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I don't think the Flames are in a tough spot. I think it's obvious that the Flames should NOT:
-Acquire a pending UFA unless Treliving somehow know they will re-sign
-Acquire anyone over 30
-Keep their pending UFAs (but at this point it looks like Hamonic will stay here - injured, then walk)
-Waste more minor assets acquiring bottom 6 players

Also, they should hire one of Boudreau, Laviolette, or Gallant.
Nothing against Ward, but these guys are top-notch.

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Old 02-18-2020, 09:03 PM   #46
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I honestly believe I could be Ok with either scenario.

Give the core one more chance? OK, but you have to get them some help which is going to cost you.

Understand the reality of your situation and deal Brodie when prices are high? I can get behind that easily. Wouldn't surprise me if the team still made the playoffs.

What I can't handle is another Shore, Lazar, Stewart, Fantanberg type deadline where we deal away picks for pressbox guys who don't get re-signed. Because if you want to give this core another chance, you HAVE to get them some help. You should have done it earlier but that is water under the bridge now.
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Old 02-18-2020, 09:39 PM   #47
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I won't have much of an issue if the Flames let Hamonic walk but extend Brodie. That, to me, is a reality of the cap world. Keeping Hamonic is an untenable luxury and it's likely his contract could become a burden. He's a sunk cost at this point, an injury makes him hard to trade, and the Flames are a playoff team that could potentially use him on a run.

Letting both Brodie and Hamonic walk would be disastrous.
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Old 02-18-2020, 09:48 PM   #48
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Treliving cant justify trading futures (especially the 1st) for rentals with a playoff bubble team.

He also can't really justify selling either, not when the his team is literally 2 points out 1st place in the division.....a very weak division with no clear favorite. I don't think this team has a chance in hell of winning the cup this year, but if they make top 3 in the division they could easily make it to round 3 before getting curb stomped given the teams they would face in round 1 and 2. It's easy for us die hard fans to sit here and say sell sell sell on a message board in this situation. Its a whole other thing to do it as the GM when you have season ticket holders, owners and the players themselves to answer to.

So unless a hockey trade that makes sense surfaces, it will very likely be a quiet deadline for Flames fans.
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Old 02-18-2020, 09:50 PM   #49
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I think the best solution is to throw a couple low picks at guys who fill holes and can be re-signed for cheap.

Mike Green and Vlad Namestnikov come to mind. Green probably doesn't get more than a 4th/5th, is a RHD, and could be a great PP quarterback on a team sorely lacking in that department. Could be re-signed for cheap to replace Stone. Calgary guy.
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Old 02-18-2020, 09:58 PM   #50
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I don't like that idea. I still really believe Bennett has another level yet and he is a beast. Many won't agree but I would trade Mangiapane before Bennett. Even better would be if we can do it for a 2nd plus another non roster piece. I don't want to see Bennett or our 1st traded unless it is part of a deal for a legit top 6 player with term .
Bennett sucks, we could have prob traded for Sam Reinhardt a couple years ago 1 for 1 but he has nuked that value along the way.

There is no extra gear, no hidden brilliance just a guy who continually looks at a team mate while he passes it tape to tape to the other team.
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Old 02-18-2020, 10:02 PM   #51
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I think the reason to not deal Brodie is because a replacement is not as easy to find as people think it is. Yeah, people want to give Giordano credit for all of Brodie's success but in my opinion, Giordano has looked cooked this season and Brodie's been our best defenseman. Do you want to go into next season without TJ Brodie? I don't foresee any better or equal options on the FA market. Get him extended. There are only ten defensemen this season with 900+ 5v5 minutes played, xGF% > 51.5%, GF% > 50%, and OZone% < 50% for a reason. Brodie plays legitimately tough minutes. Even if he has the benefit of a good partner in Giordano.

It's another thing for a UFA to be a replacement level piece like Hamonic or Glencross or Russell or Stone. Sell Sell Sell.
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Old 02-18-2020, 10:19 PM   #52
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Treliving cant justify trading futures (especially the 1st) for rentals with a playoff bubble team.

He also can't really justify selling either, not when the his team is literally 2 points out 1st place in the division.....a very weak division with no clear favorite. I don't think this team has a chance in hell of winning the cup this year, but if they make top 3 in the division they could easily make it to round 3 before getting curb stomped given the teams they would face in round 1 and 2. It's easy for us die hard fans to sit here and say sell sell sell on a message board in this situation. Its a whole other thing to do it as the GM when you have season ticket holders, owners and the players themselves to answer to.

So unless a hockey trade that makes sense surfaces, it will very likely be a quiet deadline for Flames fans.
Our noise will be made during the draft/offseason, the draft in particular.

People are going to hate that we have our hands tied again, but it is just bad luck. Hamonic should have been traded a lot earlier, but we are also in a division where winning a game puts you on top of the division and then losing a game puts you in WC1/WC2. It's tough for the Pacific teams to decide whether or not to make any moves. For Calgary, our moves will need to be made in June of 2020.
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Old 02-18-2020, 10:59 PM   #53
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If we just need a depth defensemen, why not sign Phaneuf? He would cost zero assets and may actually give a fudge about trying to get back in the league and curb some of his personality.

Otherwise, not much point in trading for a depth guy unless we find a way to dump salary at the same time.
I would rather give a young guy from the farm team a chance before I sign Phaneuf.

I understand that you want something for free, or at the very least don’t want to spend future assets on a rental.

I don’t think we should be buyers at the deadline, maybe a depth move like Fantenberg type guy that someone else mentioned. But definitely not the time to go all in or even trade anything higher than a third round pick.

If we do trade for a depth player, I would also like to see us trade away a depth player for a pick. Come out of the trade deadline with at least the same quantity of draft picks we have now.

I understand people would not be happy to lose both Hamonic and Brodie to free agency. But think about it this way. We go past the trade deadline the way we are now. We haven’t lost any assets (yet) and we haven’t spent any assets on bringing in rentals. Either player can be signed before free agency if we can get a team friendly deal (hopefully Brodie).

Go into the dressing room and tell them to look at each other, if the guys you are looking at aren’t good enough to make the playoffs, there will be changes in the offseason.

Worst case scenario you miss the playoffs, but haven’t mortgaged your future. Then you make major moves in the summer.

Best case, the team comes together, plays well an wins a round or 2. And you still have lots of assets to work with should you lose guys to free agency.

Not flashy, but sometimes it is best just to fly under the radar.
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Old 02-18-2020, 11:00 PM   #54
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The team has good depth, so the only cheap trades to make are:

1) replacing Rieder or Rinaldo with a higher quality player, presumably a right handed shot. Possible additions might be Jesper fast or Michael Frolik or Melker Karlsson or sheary or vessey

2) Add a depth defenseman in case kylington falters and Valimaki isnt coming back.
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Old 02-18-2020, 11:02 PM   #55
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I think ownership and management have to have a real serious conversation about who this team is and what they are capable of. If your making a hockey trade to acquire a weakness (speed) ok, but in no way should they be selling off future assets for UFAs or players on the cusp of the game passing them by (Simmonds). With the deals that have been going on and the high asking price, I would sincerely consider selling. The goal shouldn't be sneaking into the playoffs and losing in round 1, it should be obtaining assets to make you a perennial contender for years to come. Probably not a popular opinion.
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Old 02-18-2020, 11:04 PM   #56
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Phaneuf doesn't strike me as a realistic target under any circumstances. Bogosian, if he becomes freely available, is another discussion altogether. He's not great, but he could do fine in a limited role.
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Old 02-18-2020, 11:08 PM   #57
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I am also in the group that believes in Brodie being an integral part of this team this season, and should be re-signed for the seasons to come. There are simply not many defencemen in the entire NHL that move the puck as well as Brodie does, while playing defence at a high level.


The Hamonic injury is unfortunate. The smart move would be to involve him in a hockey trade. I don't think that the optics would look great for the team in selling Hamonic for picks, but in a trade for a legitimate prospect that could play right now, or a two-piece deal involving a pick and a depth defencemen at least.


Andersson is better than Hamonic and deserves top 4 minutes. Hamonic is NOT going to re-sign for an equal to or less than his current contract. He is going to want a raise, thus the difficult contract talks that apparently have been put on hold. Hamonic should be playing bottom-pairing minutes, and with his current deal, it sucks but it isn't crippling. With a new deal? It starts to become a crippling deal.


You can let Hamonic walk away in the off-season, but the Flames should really be recouping some assets on him as he was an expensive acquisition. I also think he has had a rough playoffs last season - arguably the worst defencemen in the playoffs, but most definitely half of the worst pairing that got eaten alive. I actually don't want him back for the playoffs, and outside of short stretches, I don't see him as being a reliable defencemen. I do think he probably adds quite a lot in the locker room, which is a key ingredient to a team, but I just don't think the Flames should retain him. I would rather him walk than re-sign him. He is injured right now, so perhaps there isn't a team that would give up anything for Hamonic right now anyway, making this conversation completely irrelevant anyway.



Other than that, I just think that if the opportunity presents itself, a hockey trade can be had with teams that are adjusting or balancing their rosters. If Treliving can upgrade somewhere with another team having an excess of players in one position and a sudden rash of injuries in another, for example. This is a great draft apparently, but selling now would strike a major blow to this team.


With that said, maybe a major blow is exactly what this team needs. They remain persistently inconsistent, if that makes sense. We never know which version of the Flames are going to show up in a game, or even if that version that shows up remains for the entire game. Maybe a kick in the pants by unloading a couple of players that Treliving feels are not in the plans for next season for pure futures will be the kick in the pants that this team needs... but it may end up being the kick in the crotch instead.


I will be a bit disappointed if Treliving does nothing right now, as I feel this is a good opportunity for the Flames to improve for next season (and beyond) with how the market is shaping out to be. I just see Brodie as a core piece, and shouldn't be used in any trade unless the return is very impressive.


Will be interesting to see how the Flames finish off the season and if they will qualify for playoffs. I think they will, actually, but with their continual inconsistent efforts/executions, nobody can be sure.
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Old 02-18-2020, 11:14 PM   #58
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Honestly Phaneuf wouldn't be a bad pickup. He could put some depth on the blue line and hype up the boys. Realistically, at this point in the season we need some seasoned veterans to lead the boys and get us into the playoffs.
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Old 02-18-2020, 11:21 PM   #59
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Honestly Phaneuf wouldn't be a bad pickup. He could put some depth on the blue line and hype up the boys. Realistically, at this point in the season we need some seasoned veterans to lead the boys and get us into the playoffs.
The problem is you are not getting 2008 Dion Phaneuf. You are getting the Phaneuf who is not good at defence. Honestly there has to be way way better options. Look at the entire AHL. There has to be 40 better options the Phaneuf. The game has passed him by.
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Old 02-18-2020, 11:23 PM   #60
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Honestly Phaneuf wouldn't be a bad pickup. He could put some depth on the blue line and hype up the boys. Realistically, at this point in the season we need some seasoned veterans to lead the boys and get us into the playoffs.

I actually think Phaneuf is a rather terrible idea, but I can understand why the suggestion came up and it 'sort of' makes sense.


I think it is a terrible idea for two reasons:


1) He hasn't played in a very long time, and is most definitely not in game shape and his timing is probably off as well. Is there enough runway left in the season to get him there before the season starts? Can the Flames afford to play him enough to get them there when these games count so much?


2) Even when he was in his prime, he remained unimpressive in his own end. That's where the Flames look like they need help - guys are seemingly losing their assignments and making poor decisions leading to the most succulent of chances to score for their opponents - routinely. I don't think Phaneuf helps fill that hole, even slightly.



Yes, he is familiar with Calgary (the city, but aside from Giordano and Backlund, not the players or the system), and he would be a free acquisition, but I actually believe dressing him between now and when he is 'up to speed' is a worse option than dressing Davidson (who has been steady, IMO) and Yelesin (2 games, but looked ok). After he is up to speed, I am actually not confident that he would be an improvement over Davidson or Yelesin. He has just dropped off a cliff, and I am not sure he can climb back even half-way any longer.
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