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Old 01-29-2020, 03:46 PM   #41
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I find this funny, because I've tailored my eating window to end at ~10pm, to specifically allow for evening snacks (and who am I kidding, a glass of wine or cocktail). If I'm a little later one evening, I just start later then next day. Generally, I fast from 10PM - 2PM, but often am busy in the afternoons and find I'm not eating until 3 or even 4PM. I find by skipping breakfast and lunch that it's quite easy to control my caloric intake with having only one formal meal at dinner time.
Yup, and that is the reason IF works great because you can make it work around your schedule.

For many people it is easier to simply not eat longer going into the day and then allow for a couple snacks later in the evening.

Also why reducing the argument to 'just eat less bro' is dumb.
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Old 01-29-2020, 03:57 PM   #42
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The reduction in calories argument gets old, and I hate that people post such simplistic views on the subject.

IF works because it alters your relationship with food (for most people a relationship that is unhealthy), and it helps you fight the cravings. After two weeks of IF I am literally not hungry anymore after 7 PM. As long as you eat healthy foods during your eating window and make sure you hit your target calories, IF will absolutely work.

That being said, eating less carbs is a goal everyone should go for. Pretty obvious that the whole 'more carbs, less fat' mantra was a complete lie and utter failure in terms of health policy.
You touched on the points on why keto gets results versus other so called fad diets.

Diets inherently get you in a calorie deficit. Great, except you generally are starving, hungry, and eventually either you complete your diet goal and go back to your old ways, or fail before you hit it because it's too difficult. People on the outside snicker.

Keto resolves some of the issues prevalent with other types of diet. It's not new either, the Atkins diet (side note wow that wiki page got totally vandalized) would get you in ketosis at times. Paleo is a themed diet but one which can also get you in ketosis at times.

Ketosis is a state, and one that takes getting used to, but the biggest advantage, especially as your body adapts, is that you no longer get hunger or cravings when going without food for a while.

Both my wife and I have been doing keto for 2 years now. I lost 30-40 pounds on it in the first 6 months and much leaner now, now I just maintain. My wife does fitness and weight lifting and loves the energy levels. My wife's mom also joined it and she loves it as well, it cleared up many of her nagging health problems.

Keto has become a fad yes, I see people get on it all the time because they think they can eat bacon all day and lose fat, similar to when Atkins was big. I love that it has become mainstream though, mainly because it provides some awesome keto products that were hard to come by in the past. Some retailers are stubborn and have no idea why some products are getting popular, (Superstore) while others embrace it and have started catering (co-op, Costco).

Unfortunately, with any fads, come the fad followers, who inundate forums about gluten free products like it matters, policing anything based on ingredient list no matter what the actual net carbs say, or asking how to be keto while vegan (????). This tends to annoy the heck out of people.

Just because something became a fad however doesn't make it ineffective, those who live it understand. It's also not supposed to be a diet, it's a lifestyle change that contradicts everything that the media and food industry has been saying for 60 years. It's being portrayed as gimmicky, when really it's just a metabolic state that exists in every human (fasting is an evolved human trait as well, and works very well).
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Old 01-29-2020, 05:05 PM   #43
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There are also a lot of people who combine keto & IF and have amazing results.

Keto to me requires bigger commitment, a better understanding of food and a lot more discipline. Most people can't follow through on that on a permanent basis, but if you can, more power to you.

There is also more to being a healthy person, or becoming a healthy person than simply losing weight, which is another thing keto & fasting help a lot with.

Nobody has mentioned autophagy yet, and that is a revolutionary part of fasting that humans should definitely study more and take more advantage of.
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Old 01-29-2020, 05:12 PM   #44
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First off, good luck to all you guys. Weight management isn't easy.

For me, I think the biggest thing I have taken from all the diet plans I've poked around in over the years is that most people think calorie deficit = hungry. Not necessarily true. I will say that most diets kinda make meals scientific. Not interesting science, boring. No one likes going through agonizing boring meals. Deriving no pleasure from food is a quick way to derail a weight loss plan. But yes, all diets to lose weight essentially stem from the fact you've accumulated too many calories over time.

Most of the easy food we have is calorie dense and dense in a way that's hard to break down while in "stasis" (ie: Afterburn/Keto... whatever). I often suggest that rather than eating less to lose weight, eat more volume and less calorie dense. A beer for instance is very calorie dense. Substituting water obviously means you're burning more reserves than new calories. But if you were to eat an entire bag or potatoes, a whole head of cauliflower/broccoli, instead of pizza would you be full? Sure.

This is generally how I manage my weight after I inevitably balloon 20 extra pounds in weight during busy season. I eat anything, but I force myself to eat calorie low calorie density foods after having calorie dense foods. Usually one bad day equals to requiring two good days. The reward of being able to go back to high calorie dense foods after grinding it out on low calorie dense foods is kinda enjoyable and worth it and is how I've stuck with my plan so long. My weight range is usually between 180 to 205 pounds. I intermittent fast every day which helps, but calorie dense plus a loose ball park calorie count is the method/idea I ascribe to now for everything else.

Some of my friends derived this concept to "intermittent vegan". They'll have a few days a week where they eat vegan (or eat vegan at home and anything goes when they go out with others) and it seems to work for them. IMO the reason why it works so well is one word, "Fibre". I always do fruits and veggies are considered essentially unlimited. But don't kid yourself with avocados and mangoes which are calorie dense or add dips/dressing that are the same.

For me, calorie dense is less about the calories in, but the remaining calories by the times the food goes out. No food is inherently "bad". A food higher in fibre (ie: veggies) is using more calories to break down than something like a cheese. So if I've been eating higher calorie dense food, I'll snack on veggies and fruit vs chips and cheese. For meals I'll do more plain veggies, cut meat into smaller parts (ie: ground beef vs sliced meat vs steak) etc. I also find if you eat slower, you'll eat less by the time you feel full.

Calorie dense also isn't about the food we eat, but the state it is in. Often times, we have cravings. Get rid of them right away. As stupid as this sounds, my wife and I used to do successful charcuterie type snack boards while dieting that were within range of our allowed snacks for calorie counting. 2-3 pickles are essentially nothing in calories. We sliced those damn things into slices around the size and thickness of a nickle. We'd do something similar with a pepperoni sausage/smoked meats and cheese to ratio. Add in some crackers, you can split a 150 calorie snack that fills that craving, for little calorie intake. We also do a bunch of sliced fruits on the side too.

My understanding of this is that most people rush food consumption to the point where we swallow lots of un-chewed food. This means that food is compact and can take up less space in our stomach before we are full. Proper chewing helps to have the food take up more space and thus we are full sooner with the same type of food consumed. Add in the additional calories you used to break down the food... it'll add up after a while.
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Old 01-29-2020, 05:17 PM   #45
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I do a pretty strict keto/IF regimen during the week when I'm trying to lost weight, and then relax the keto portion on the weekend because it's difficult to sustain an active social life while remaining in ketosis; but I still try to stick to the IF as much as possible on the weekends.
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Old 01-29-2020, 07:30 PM   #46
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Been keto almost over 2 years, I strict it out a few times a year for about 3 weeks. Lost over 30 lbs initially and have maintained since. I’m completely energized and use my Sous vide to its fullest potential.

As for social drinking, I’ll never give it up. I was a big beer drinker and was in heaven while working at Craft. But I changed it up - now it’s Pinot Noir’s, Sauv Blanc’s and Vodka water or soda.

It took a while to find my balance but I found a great plan/guide and have never looked back.

(If anyone would like a keto plan, I’d be happy to share)
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Old 01-29-2020, 10:15 PM   #47
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Been keto almost over 2 years, I strict it out a few times a year for about 3 weeks. Lost over 30 lbs initially and have maintained since. I’m completely energized and use my Sous vide to its fullest potential.

As for social drinking, I’ll never give it up. I was a big beer drinker and was in heaven while working at Craft. But I changed it up - now it’s Pinot Noir’s, Sauv Blanc’s and Vodka water or soda.

It took a while to find my balance but I found a great plan/guide and have never looked back.

(If anyone would like a keto plan, I’d be happy to share)
I was in Vancouver a few weeks ago and found a keto-friendly beer at one of the pubs I went to. Didn't try it but would be super curious how that would work exactly.
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Old 01-29-2020, 11:56 PM   #48
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Yeah keto definitely works, but you do have to be pretty disciplined... Once you get into ketosis, I found I could do cheat days once a week, but it does slow your progression...

I did find tended to flat line though so those cheat days probably put a ceiling on things
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Old 01-30-2020, 09:59 AM   #49
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First off, good luck to all you guys. Weight management isn't easy.

For me, I think the biggest thing I have taken from all the diet plans I've poked around in over the years is that most people think calorie deficit = hungry. Not necessarily true. I will say that most diets kinda make meals scientific. Not interesting science, boring. No one likes going through agonizing boring meals. Deriving no pleasure from food is a quick way to derail a weight loss plan. But yes, all diets to lose weight essentially stem from the fact you've accumulated too many calories over time.

Most of the easy food we have is calorie dense and dense in a way that's hard to break down while in "stasis" (ie: Afterburn/Keto... whatever). I often suggest that rather than eating less to lose weight, eat more volume and less calorie dense. A beer for instance is very calorie dense. Substituting water obviously means you're burning more reserves than new calories. But if you were to eat an entire bag or potatoes, a whole head of cauliflower/broccoli, instead of pizza would you be full? Sure.

This is generally how I manage my weight after I inevitably balloon 20 extra pounds in weight during busy season. I eat anything, but I force myself to eat calorie low calorie density foods after having calorie dense foods. Usually one bad day equals to requiring two good days. The reward of being able to go back to high calorie dense foods after grinding it out on low calorie dense foods is kinda enjoyable and worth it and is how I've stuck with my plan so long. My weight range is usually between 180 to 205 pounds. I intermittent fast every day which helps, but calorie dense plus a loose ball park calorie count is the method/idea I ascribe to now for everything else.

Some of my friends derived this concept to "intermittent vegan". They'll have a few days a week where they eat vegan (or eat vegan at home and anything goes when they go out with others) and it seems to work for them. IMO the reason why it works so well is one word, "Fibre". I always do fruits and veggies are considered essentially unlimited. But don't kid yourself with avocados and mangoes which are calorie dense or add dips/dressing that are the same.

For me, calorie dense is less about the calories in, but the remaining calories by the times the food goes out. No food is inherently "bad". A food higher in fibre (ie: veggies) is using more calories to break down than something like a cheese. So if I've been eating higher calorie dense food, I'll snack on veggies and fruit vs chips and cheese. For meals I'll do more plain veggies, cut meat into smaller parts (ie: ground beef vs sliced meat vs steak) etc. I also find if you eat slower, you'll eat less by the time you feel full.

Calorie dense also isn't about the food we eat, but the state it is in. Often times, we have cravings. Get rid of them right away. As stupid as this sounds, my wife and I used to do successful charcuterie type snack boards while dieting that were within range of our allowed snacks for calorie counting. 2-3 pickles are essentially nothing in calories. We sliced those damn things into slices around the size and thickness of a nickle. We'd do something similar with a pepperoni sausage/smoked meats and cheese to ratio. Add in some crackers, you can split a 150 calorie snack that fills that craving, for little calorie intake. We also do a bunch of sliced fruits on the side too.

My understanding of this is that most people rush food consumption to the point where we swallow lots of un-chewed food. This means that food is compact and can take up less space in our stomach before we are full. Proper chewing helps to have the food take up more space and thus we are full sooner with the same type of food consumed. Add in the additional calories you used to break down the food... it'll add up after a while.
This is noom. To a tee.
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Old 01-30-2020, 10:10 AM   #50
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I'll tell you one thing that's frustrating as hell is having a selfish, narcissistic, overbearing parent who is completely unsupportive of your weight loss efforts. I try to go for dinner with my dad once a week and he always wants to go for pizza. I've mentioned on countless occasions that I'm trying to restrict my carb intake but I always get guilted with #### like "Well one day of having pizza won't hurt," "I only get to have pizza when I'm with you," or "Well you drink on the weekends so it's not fair that you won't eat pizza with me," despite the fact that I've mentioned about a thousand times that when I drink on the weekend, it's usually zero carb drinks like gin and soda or vodka seltzers.

Anyone else deal with this type of manipulative bull#### and have any suggestions? I've gotten to the point where I'm pretty comfortable turning down unhealthy foods at the office, but I just get tired of putting up a fight when it comes to dealing with my dad.
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Old 01-30-2020, 10:14 AM   #51
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I'll tell you one thing that's frustrating as hell is having a selfish, narcissistic, overbearing parent who is completely unsupportive of your weight loss efforts. I try to go for dinner with my dad once a week and he always wants to go for pizza. I've mentioned on countless occasions that I'm trying to restrict my carb intake but I always get guilted with #### like "Well one day of having pizza won't hurt," "I only get to have pizza when I'm with you," or "Well you drink on the weekends so it's not fair that you won't eat pizza with me," despite the fact that I've mentioned about a thousand times that when I drink on the weekend, it's usually zero carb drinks like gin and soda or vodka seltzers.

Anyone else deal with this type of manipulative bull#### and have any suggestions? I've gotten to the point where I'm pretty comfortable turning down unhealthy foods at the office, but I just get tired of putting up a fight when it comes to dealing with my dad.
Get cauliflower crust pizza? I eat it, its so good.
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Old 01-30-2020, 10:16 AM   #52
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Get cauliflower crust pizza? I eat it, its so good.
Would have to find a restaurant that serves it and he refuses to go anywhere for pizza but the one chain he likes.
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Old 01-30-2020, 10:58 AM   #53
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Old 01-30-2020, 10:59 AM   #54
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Would have to find a restaurant that serves it and he refuses to go anywhere for pizza but the one chain he likes.
Ah, ok. I think most places are getting it now though. Pizza73 does a really good one.

Anyways, not sure if this helps, but just try to remember, his disdain and guilt are what he controls in this situation, you can't control that. You can only control your reaction to it.

Don't fight him on it. State your opinion, then proceed to find something to eat that fits your plan. If you engage it only validates his actions and upsets you.

Ok, I am done Dr. Phil-ing.
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Old 01-30-2020, 11:00 AM   #55
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I still do keto mostly because I feel great when I'm on it. I find it's easy for me to stick to since I can have a steak, burger (hold the bun), Caesar salad (no croutons, add chicken), bacon and eggs, small servings of peanut butter, etc. There's also a diabetic store on 17 Ave @ 37 Street called "Just Sweet Enough" that has really good low carb bread (2g net carbs/slice) if you do need toast with your eggs or something to spread the peanut butter on.

Yes, the main mechanism by which ketosis allows you to lose weight is calorie restriction; the reason it's effective for people is SATIETY (and also insulin sensitivity). I can lose weight by cutting my calories without keto or cutting my calories with keto, but doing it with keto is easier so I usually do that.

A word of caution; the Cauliflower Crust pizza at Boston Pizza is delicious, but it's also still 50 99 grams of carbs for that 'individual size' pizza; add in other trace carbs you might take in over the course of a day and you might will find yourself kicked out of ketosis.
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Last edited by TorqueDog; 01-30-2020 at 02:22 PM. Reason: Re-checked the nutritional facts on BP's site after csnarpy posted. SHEEEEEIT.
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Old 01-30-2020, 11:22 AM   #56
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This is noom. To a tee.
Reading up on noom, it's similar to what I ascribe to. Neat.

But I don't charge people $45 a month...

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I'll tell you one thing that's frustrating as hell is having a selfish, narcissistic, overbearing parent who is completely unsupportive of your weight loss efforts. I try to go for dinner with my dad once a week and he always wants to go for pizza. I've mentioned on countless occasions that I'm trying to restrict my carb intake but I always get guilted with #### like "Well one day of having pizza won't hurt," "I only get to have pizza when I'm with you," or "Well you drink on the weekends so it's not fair that you won't eat pizza with me," despite the fact that I've mentioned about a thousand times that when I drink on the weekend, it's usually zero carb drinks like gin and soda or vodka seltzers.

Anyone else deal with this type of manipulative bull#### and have any suggestions? I've gotten to the point where I'm pretty comfortable turning down unhealthy foods at the office, but I just get tired of putting up a fight when it comes to dealing with my dad.
Personally, I don't know if it's truly manipulative... more just a stubborn person insisting on what he wants and you caving. I really don't see it as guilting you his comments, just adult whining hoping he gets his way. I'm pretty sure he's not doing it to spite your diet or anything weird like that, but I don't know your dad nor you. To me, I just seem to notice a few men over the age of 50 who also seem to do the same thing. Just my 2 cents.

Suggestions wise, do you have to go to the chain itself? Can you get take out from there plus a few places/skip the dishes and go hang out at his/your place, a park etc. so that you can procure things that fit your diet? You might even want to introduce him to some stuff that works for you that he'd actually like too.
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Old 01-30-2020, 11:38 AM   #57
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Reading up on noom, it's similar to what I ascribe to. Neat.

But I don't charge people $45 a month...



Personally, I don't know if it's truly manipulative... more just a stubborn person insisting on what he wants and you caving. I really don't see it as guilting you his comments, just adult whining hoping he gets his way. I'm pretty sure he's not doing it to spite your diet or anything weird like that, but I don't know your dad nor you. To me, I just seem to notice a few men over the age of 50 who also seem to do the same thing. Just my 2 cents.

Suggestions wise, do you have to go to the chain itself? Can you get take out from there plus a few places/skip the dishes and go hang out at his/your place, a park etc. so that you can procure things that fit your diet? You might even want to introduce him to some stuff that works for you that he'd actually like too.
It's awesome you figured it out on your own!

I consider the money well spent!
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Old 01-30-2020, 11:58 AM   #58
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I still do keto mostly because I feel great when I'm on it. I find it's easy for me to stick to since I can have a steak, burger (hold the bun), Caesar salad (no croutons, add chicken), bacon and eggs, small servings of peanut butter, etc. There's also a diabetic store on 17 Ave @ 37 Street called "Just Sweet Enough" that has really good low carb bread (2g net carbs/slice) if you do need toast with your eggs or something to spread the peanut butter on.

Yes, the main mechanism by which ketosis allows you to lose weight is calorie restriction; the reason it's effective for people is SATIETY. I can lose weight by cutting my calories without keto or cutting my calories with keto, but doing it with keto is easier so I usually do that.

A word of caution; the Cauliflower Crust pizza at Boston Pizza is delicious, but it's also still 50 grams of carbs for that 'individual size' pizza; add in other trace carbs you might take in over the course of a day and you might find yourself kicked out of ketosis.
Apparently Pizza Pizza has a keto crust pizza but I have not tried it yet.
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Old 01-30-2020, 12:34 PM   #59
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Personally, I don't know if it's truly manipulative... more just a stubborn person insisting on what he wants and you caving. I really don't see it as guilting you his comments, just adult whining hoping he gets his way. I'm pretty sure he's not doing it to spite your diet or anything weird like that, but I don't know your dad nor you. To me, I just seem to notice a few men over the age of 50 who also seem to do the same thing. Just my 2 cents.
It gets to the point of manipulative/controlling when I agree to go for pizza but he still gets mad if I order something for myself other than pizza. He's a generally awful person to be around, but I'm kind of stuck taking care of him because he's old, has health problems, and everyone else in my family have washed their hands of him because he's a miserable #######.
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Old 01-30-2020, 12:38 PM   #60
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Get cauliflower crust pizza? I eat it, its so good.
Unfortunately cauliflower crust pizza usually has more carbs than regular.

There are a lot place doing either parm crust or fathead crust.

I love Jon’s pizza in the SE, so good!

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