10-16-2016, 08:56 AM
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#61
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch
my fear is that he's trying to fit players into his system, instead of designing a system around the players he has.
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You mean exactly what Hartley was doing?
System aside, he just looks so meek behind the bench. He doesn't look very confident and that probably doesn't instill confidence. Hartley for all his faults always looked the part at least.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
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10-16-2016, 09:01 AM
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#62
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: wearing raccoons for boots
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As soon as they start playing an identifiable system I will comment on it. Currently looks like random crap.
I havent watched too intently through the first three crapfests but I have not seen GG, when on cam, actually talking. Just standing behind the bench. Anyone see it differently?
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10-16-2016, 09:12 AM
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#63
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Franchise Player
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Yup. Impossible to really judge it because the best players aren't playing well yet, and no one is executing yet.
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10-16-2016, 09:14 AM
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#64
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Franchise Player
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Regarding Brodie, I think he benefitted from Hartley's system more than any other player - it was practically designed around him.
Now he is trying to adjust his game to a new system that is pretty different for the defensemen.
Give it time.
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10-16-2016, 09:30 AM
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#65
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puffnstuff
As soon as they start playing an identifiable system I will comment on it. Currently looks like random crap.
I havent watched too intently through the first three crapfests but I have not seen GG, when on cam, actually talking. Just standing behind the bench. Anyone see it differently?
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This is true. I haven't seen anything that looks like system yet. And only getting the TV perspective, they haven't really shown GG do anything but complaining or looking up at the clock.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
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10-16-2016, 09:34 AM
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#66
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Lethbridge
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Do we even know what the system is supposed to be? We've heard about having better puck possession from GG, but what exactly is the system? Last night we have 38% puck possession based on Pat Stienberg's tweet.
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10-16-2016, 10:52 AM
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#67
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdubz
Do we even know what the system is supposed to be? We've heard about having better puck possession from GG, but what exactly is the system? Last night we have 38% puck possession based on Pat Stienberg's tweet.
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Flames carried the play until they stopped playing in the third and started defaulting to old habits like sinking back.
Score-adjusted 5v5 corsi last night was 46.5℅ but like I said, that is predominantly because the Flames didn't show up in the third.
__________________
"May those who accept their fate find happiness. May those who defy it find glory."
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10-16-2016, 11:03 AM
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#68
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Uncle Chester
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I like what the coach said after the game. I'm paraphrasing: "we previously had 12 goals scored against us in two games. We made changes defensively last night that worked. We are getting there."
Seems like he is willing to make changes if they need to be made. I like that in a coach. Doesn't blindly stick to his system no matter what.
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10-16-2016, 12:50 PM
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#69
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Thunder Bay Ontario
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It's not good...yet, but it's getting better!
__________________
Fan of the Flames, where being OK has become OK.
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10-16-2016, 12:54 PM
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#70
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Franchise Player
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My thoughts are it's 3 games in. It takes time for teams to learn a system, especially when many key players missed training camp. Holding off any judgement on system, until we've actually seen the group start to execute properly.
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10-16-2016, 01:06 PM
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#71
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Lethbridge
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The 5 man group/ short passes would work better if guys were moving faster. Too many passes to players moving slow, or standing still which made it easy for defenders to close in.
Zone exits need a lot of work. All 3 games we saw several instances of the D moving the puck up the boards, but no forward there in position. Opposing D seemed to have not much trouble identifying and breaking up zone exits at the blue one. Not enough speed/ thinking too much about what they are supposed to be doing imo.
D zone assignments looked very rigid, but the players also often looked gassed which might explain it.
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10-16-2016, 03:07 PM
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#72
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Franchise Player
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So are the Flames playing man on man in the D-zone? Box+1, Overload? Collapse?
What's their forecheck? 1-2-2, 2-1-2, 1-4, 2-3?
Does anyone really know for sure the strategy they are using? It seems like only an experienced high level coach would have any kind of read on this stuff. It's too hard for normal fans to get info on the specifics.
I want to say the Flames were playing man on man, or an overload against the Oilers in their own zone, but I'm not entirely sure. It seemed like they were very aggressive in the corners looking to pin, and win board battles. I think a collapsing defence like Hartley's works best against the Oilers because they can't generate any offence from their defence.
I have to admit that systems play is pretty hard for me to pick up on when watching the game. For one thing, I think basically all teams use the same systems, and use combinations of all systems during the same game, and sometimes on the same shift.
I mean pretty much every NHL team will dump the puck if they are tired at the end of the shift, and this almost always results in a 1-4 (Trap) forecheck. Most teams use this when trying to hold a lead as well.
Watching on TV adds difficulty to trying to see systems play as you only get to view where the puck is headed, and not all of the players on the ice.
Then you have different players utilizing different tactics. The Flames were obviously looking to use a stretch pass breakout to Johnny when he was on the ice against the Oilers, but obviously Bouma is going to be riding the pine if he was continually using that same tactic.
All in all, when it comes to systems play it seems like there are always a lot of questions and not many answers. I wish the media would do a better job of asking these questions, and sharing this info with the fans.
Last edited by Oil Stain; 10-16-2016 at 03:11 PM.
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10-16-2016, 04:20 PM
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#73
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Void between Darkness and Light
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oil Stain
So are the Flames playing man on man in the D-zone? Box+1, Overload? Collapse?
What's their forecheck? 1-2-2, 2-1-2, 1-4, 2-3?
Does anyone really know for sure the strategy they are using? It seems like only an experienced high level coach would have any kind of read on this stuff. It's too hard for normal fans to get info on the specifics.
I want to say the Flames were playing man on man, or an overload against the Oilers in their own zone, but I'm not entirely sure. It seemed like they were very aggressive in the corners looking to pin, and win board battles. I think a collapsing defence like Hartley's works best against the Oilers because they can't generate any offence from their defence.
I have to admit that systems play is pretty hard for me to pick up on when watching the game. For one thing, I think basically all teams use the same systems, and use combinations of all systems during the same game, and sometimes on the same shift.
I mean pretty much every NHL team will dump the puck if they are tired at the end of the shift, and this almost always results in a 1-4 (Trap) forecheck. Most teams use this when trying to hold a lead as well.
Watching on TV adds difficulty to trying to see systems play as you only get to view where the puck is headed, and not all of the players on the ice.
Then you have different players utilizing different tactics. The Flames were obviously looking to use a stretch pass breakout to Johnny when he was on the ice against the Oilers, but obviously Bouma is going to be riding the pine if he was continually using that same tactic.
All in all, when it comes to systems play it seems like there are always a lot of questions and not many answers. I wish the media would do a better job of asking these questions, and sharing this info with the fans.
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No one on this board has any clue what 'system' gulutzan is using.
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10-16-2016, 04:51 PM
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#74
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In the Sin Bin
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I don't even think Gulutzan himself knows what system he wants. When we have players in post-game interviews saying that they were trying to do things that we were led to believe is the opposite of what the coach wanted a couple weeks ago, well....
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10-16-2016, 04:59 PM
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#75
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The toilet of Alberta : Edmonton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle
My thoughts are it's 3 games in. It takes time for teams to learn a system, especially when many key players missed training camp. Holding off any judgement on system, until we've actually seen the group start to execute properly.
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Not having our two best forwards (and their line mate) miss pretty much all of training camp is a huge factor. But I still wonder why Ottawa and Minnesota look fine with a brand new coach and presumably system?
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"Illusions Michael, tricks are something a wh*re does for money ....... or cocaine"
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10-16-2016, 05:04 PM
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#76
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji
Not having our two best forwards (and their line mate) miss pretty much all of training camp is a huge factor. But I still wonder why Ottawa and Minnesota look fine with a brand new coach and presumably system?
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we will see how they look in a couple weeks...they have two coin-flip wins, one against TO
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10-16-2016, 05:55 PM
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#77
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Backup Goalie
Join Date: Jul 2003
Exp:
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He seems like a coach who worries more about styling his hair than icing an intelligent lineup. Not unlike a certain Dallas Eakins.
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10-16-2016, 06:55 PM
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#78
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Needs More Cowbell
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Not Canada, Eh?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash Walken
No one on this board has any clue what 'system' gulutzan is using.
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Hopefully Gulutzan does...
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10-16-2016, 07:15 PM
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#79
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Field near Field, AB
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Gulutzan seems to get out coached on lines. A couple goals against were mismatched lines. Not a fan to date.
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10-16-2016, 07:59 PM
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#80
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SW Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch Root
Yup. Impossible to really judge it because the best players aren't playing well yet, and no one is executing yet.
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This. What I saw in that Vancouver game was a team executing what GG wants in the first period and then slipping back to what they learned from Hartley. Old habits die hard and this team needs to break them and play the new system for 60 minutes.
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