Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community
Old 01-12-2021, 07:19 PM   #1221
VladtheImpaler
Franchise Player
 
VladtheImpaler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Sigh - another loss to a weak team. This could be touch & go for relegation; luckily, the bottom 3 are really bad.
__________________
Cordially as always,
Vlad the Impaler

Please check out http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...94#post3726494

VladtheImpaler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2021, 10:53 AM   #1222
Slava
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Exp:
Default

I honestly can't believe that United is top of the league. A few weeks back it was a question of when OGS was getting sacked and they were bringing in Poch, and now they're leading...what a weird season. I know that one United fan will say they knew it all along and never doubted it, but I also know that a lot of United supporters had seen enough this fall. One of my friends told me that he woke up everyday and checked twitter to see if he'd been sacked and they had a replacement so it definitely wasn't only me that thought that, and it can't only be me now in thinking that it's crazy to see them out front.
Slava is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2021, 12:38 PM   #1223
Bagor
Franchise Player
 
Bagor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Spartanville
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slava View Post
I honestly can't believe that United is top of the league. A few weeks back it was a question of when OGS was getting sacked and they were bringing in Poch, and now they're leading...what a weird season. I know that one United fan will say they knew it all along and never doubted it, but I also know that a lot of United supporters had seen enough this fall. One of my friends told me that he woke up everyday and checked twitter to see if he'd been sacked and they had a replacement so it definitely wasn't only me that thought that, and it can't only be me now in thinking that it's crazy to see them out front.
You keep fixating on OGS being sacked.

What exactly was it that made you think he should have been sacked? His 2020 record where he outperformed Jose,Pep, Rogers, Frank and everyone except Klopp who he was a couple of points behind?

His poor start when United never basically had an off season?
His excuses at the start when he said that they weren't up to match fitness levels and would get there?

Or did you ignore that and fixate on his Turkish disaster and blowing the CL group.

You were in disbelief that he was still in a job then. Using your same standards, when do you expect Jose's position to be under threat? I mean his form in the last 10 games is hardly making the Europa league. Do you expect him to be canned soon if this continues? If not, why not? Two years in a row of not making the CL surely would be grounds for sacking, yes?

United fans get what Ole is doing. Cleaning up the mess of previous managers. Creating a culture of accountability back in the club. Getting rid of the deadwood. The mercenaries and slowly getting the club back on track.
Are they there yet? Not even close. Are they in better shape as a club that when Jose left? Absolutely and it's not even close.

That's why United fans are giving him more leeway. Because the big picture is that he is slowly but surely turning the club in the right direction. He sees the big picture.

I'm delighted at the way he managed and is getting Pogba to perform. Sat him on the bench whilst they won letting him know he wasn't bigger than the team. I'm delighted now that Pogba is performing simply because I want him to do well in the shop window.

I could care less about Sancho but am pissed that they missed out on Grealish but hope they cash in Pogba and throw the bank at Villa to get him. He's the sort of player that's worth it. Not only is he talented but he's a competitor with an edge. And by all accounts works his ass off. A leader by example.

So, yeah. Continue to fixate on Ole and continue to ignore the building job he has done and how he has turned the club around from Jose's mess. Continue to ignore the long term trend of his results.

Just like you ignored the previous second half of the season trend for Spurs when it was pointed out to you when you were suggesting Spurs were title contenders. And then what? The trend continued and Poch got sacked.

Finally. No one is suggesting Ole is a tactical genious. Far from it. But what he seems to be very good at is man management and getting players to perform. That and changing culture.

So, what's your threshold for Jose and why do you give him a longer rope than Ole? Why hasn't he been fired by your own standard?
__________________



Last edited by Bagor; 01-13-2021 at 12:41 PM.
Bagor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2021, 01:47 PM   #1224
VladtheImpaler
Franchise Player
 
VladtheImpaler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Well, I think I actually have to cheer for Tottenham and MCI today, in light of the Wolves relegation potential.
__________________
Cordially as always,
Vlad the Impaler

Please check out http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...94#post3726494

VladtheImpaler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2021, 04:03 PM   #1225
rubecube
Franchise Player
 
rubecube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Victoria
Exp:
Default

Lol, this is peak Mourinho.
rubecube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2021, 04:11 PM   #1226
Senator Clay Davis
Franchise Player
 
Senator Clay Davis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Maryland State House, Annapolis
Exp:
Default

__________________
"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
Senator Clay Davis is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Senator Clay Davis For This Useful Post:
Old 01-13-2021, 04:18 PM   #1227
Bagor
Franchise Player
 
Bagor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Spartanville
Exp:
Default

Two great crosses. Two great headers.
__________________


Bagor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2021, 04:25 PM   #1228
Bagor
Franchise Player
 
Bagor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Spartanville
Exp:
Default

What's going on with Bale? Surely this was a perfect scenario to bring him on?

He in the dog house?
__________________


Bagor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2021, 06:28 PM   #1229
VladtheImpaler
Franchise Player
 
VladtheImpaler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Truly useless those Spurs.
__________________
Cordially as always,
Vlad the Impaler

Please check out http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...94#post3726494

VladtheImpaler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2021, 06:40 PM   #1230
Senator Clay Davis
Franchise Player
 
Senator Clay Davis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Maryland State House, Annapolis
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagor View Post
What's going on with Bale? Surely this was a perfect scenario to bring him on?

He in the dog house?
8:15 tee time tomorrow morning, can't be risking throwing out your back.
__________________
"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
Senator Clay Davis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2021, 07:00 PM   #1231
nik-
Franchise Player
 
nik-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagor View Post
What's going on with Bale? Surely this was a perfect scenario to bring him on?

He in the dog house?
He's finished.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji View Post
Johnny eats garbage and isnít 100% committed.
nik- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2021, 08:13 PM   #1232
Bagor
Franchise Player
 
Bagor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Spartanville
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nik- View Post
He's finished.
At the top level. Yes.

But with 20 minutes to go against a Fulham team leaving space all over the place as they pressed forward? Ideal for him to come off the bench fresh to kill the game with Son and Kane.


Something's not right.
__________________


Bagor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2021, 08:24 PM   #1233
Senator Clay Davis
Franchise Player
 
Senator Clay Davis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Maryland State House, Annapolis
Exp:
Default

I just don't think he has the heart or fight left, that he's happy to make an obscene amount of money to warm the bench. Would you rather put Bale out giving a 75-80% effort, or Lamela who will put in the full effort? 75-80% effort against Kazakh farmers is one thing, but Fulham are fighting for survival.
__________________
"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
Senator Clay Davis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2021, 08:42 PM   #1234
Slava
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Exp:
Default

That was the same game we saw two weeks ago against Wolverhampton. We squandered a few chances and end up with a couple points dropped...again. I think that when it’s working, people are fine with Mourinho and his style. But when you’re not winning it’s hard to watch.

Bale was hurt, but might be fine now. He’s done for sure though. In his appearances thus far he’s showed very little, and there are at least a few options ahead of him in the pecking order.
Slava is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2021, 10:12 AM   #1235
Bagor
Franchise Player
 
Bagor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Spartanville
Exp:
Default

^. To repeat the question.

Based on your threshold that you apply to other managers do you think Mourinho should be fired and if not, why not?

Hurt and might be fine? Players that normally might be fine are on the bench?
__________________


Bagor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2021, 10:47 AM   #1236
Slava
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagor View Post
^. To repeat the question.

Based on your threshold that you apply to other managers do you think Mourinho should be fired and if not, why not?

Hurt and might be fine? Players that normally might be fine are on the bench?
I don't think that we should fire Mourinho, as we're getting exactly what we could've expected. We're progressing along in the 4 competitions that we're involved in, playing totally unattractive football with a decent amount of ####-housery. Who would've thought that we'd see anything different? For the most part, his actually managerial decisions are good. It's obviously a big problem that we've conceded so many goals in the final quarter, and I'm sure he's not super pleased with that, but I'm still hopeful that we can take care of that.

The league is weird this year. I don't know if it's the lack of fans in the stadiums, or the fixtures and scheduling or what it is. But overall, I feel like the points totals are down and the overall standings are super close. Everyone is dropping points to teams they otherwise "shouldn't". Part of it could be that the overall money is making it so that midtable and lower teams can hold on to their best players who might otherwise move from them to the bigger clubs? I don't know. But it makes for an interesting season where you really don't know who will win and who will end up in the CL positions.

Players could be on the bench at say 70-80%. I would say that's not entirely uncommon, particularly at this point in the season.
Slava is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2021, 08:14 PM   #1237
Cappy
Powerplay Quarterback
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Exp:
Default

I don’t think Slava was the only person questioning whether OGS would have a job. This was discussed at length in the media and online for well over two months.

It’s the same with Lampard, currently.

I would say chelsea and united have high expectations and largely unproven EPL managers making it more likely they are on the hot seat during bad stretches.

Mourinho, Klopp, and Pep all have the name recognition and past success to stick out bad stretches. Plus, rightly or wrongly, I don’t think the Spurs have the same short-leash these other coaches would have.

Spurs fans expected top 4 finish this year and I still think that’s the goal.
Cappy is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Cappy For This Useful Post:
Old 01-14-2021, 09:35 PM   #1238
Slava
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cappy View Post
I donít think Slava was the only person questioning whether OGS would have a job. This was discussed at length in the media and online for well over two months.

Itís the same with Lampard, currently.

I would say chelsea and united have high expectations and largely unproven EPL managers making it more likely they are on the hot seat during bad stretches.

Mourinho, Klopp, and Pep all have the name recognition and past success to stick out bad stretches. Plus, rightly or wrongly, I donít think the Spurs have the same short-leash these other coaches would have.

Spurs fans expected top 4 finish this year and I still think thatís the goal.
Top four and a cup is pretty much the bar for most of us this year. Less than that would depend, but it wouldnít be great.

Iím far from the only one who thought Ole was on his last legs. Itís hardly an original thought. Iím still not convinced. I think City wins the league this year, and the other three CL spots are a close race.

Lampard is getting found out. Arteta should stay, because heís doing gods work, but heís obviously brutal. Thereís a dearth of good managers in the league at this point. Klopp, Pep and Mourinho are there. I think that Hassenhutl is really good and Iíd take him for sure. I also like the style Villa plays and I think Ancelotti is a good manager. Iím probably forgetting some, but I think itís a minority overall.
Slava is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Slava For This Useful Post:
Old 01-14-2021, 11:29 PM   #1239
Bagor
Franchise Player
 
Bagor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Spartanville
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cappy View Post
I don’t think Slava was the only person questioning whether OGS would have a job. This was discussed at length in the media and online for well over two months.
He wasn't questioning. He was dumbfounded that he still had a job even though he was vastly outperforming Mourinho, Frank.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cappy View Post
Mourinho, Klopp, and Pep all have the name recognition and past success to stick out bad stretches. Plus, rightly or wrongly, I don’t think the Spurs have the same short-leash these other coaches would have.
Do NOT lump Mourinho in with Klopp and Pep when his recent legacy is to leave clubs in disarray. The way he left Chelsea. The mess he left United.
I'd argue that ole has done a better job at United than Jose has.

So, Spurs don't make top four. Do you can Mourinho?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slava View Post
Top four and a cup is pretty much the bar for most of us this year. Less than that would depend, but it wouldn’t be great.

I’m far from the only one who thought Ole was on his last legs. It’s hardly an original thought. I’m still not convinced. I think City wins the league this year, and the other three CL spots are a close race.
I'm not interested in anyone else. Or, are you saying that because other period thought it makes it ok?

I want YOU to explain why you were so aghast that he still had a job at a time when he was on a winning streak through the PL? When he had significantly outperformed Jose..and Frank....and Brendan. Why should he have been fired in front of Jose?

Or is the best reason that you and Cappy can come up with is....well other people were saying it too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slava View Post
Lampard is getting found out. Arteta should stay, because he’s doing gods work, but he’s obviously brutal. There’s a dearth of good managers in the league at this point. Klopp, Pep and Mourinho are there.
The bold. Just Wtf?
There you go again. Arteta is brutal yet he taken 10 in the last 4 games.

That's the same number as Jose had taken in his last eight. Jose doing God's work also?

Same question. You don't make top four. Do you fire him?

Keeps up this rate of two wins in every eight games do you fire him?
__________________



Last edited by Bagor; 01-14-2021 at 11:35 PM.
Bagor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2021, 07:38 AM   #1240
Slava
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Exp:
Default

I have no idea why your so fascinated with my opinion of Ole, but I’ll take it as a compliment.

I’m surprised that United is leading the league, and while that doesn’t seem to be a surprise to you, it is to most people that I’ve talked to as well. They’re not a great team, and they’re not even better than all of the other teams in the league. We’re not halfway through the season quite yet, so we’ll see what happens.

And Ole isn’t a good manager. He might be mediocre. He’s been the beneficiary of an unreal amount of penalties and lucky breaks. That doesn’t last forever. Whether it’s the last minute crazy deflection to beat Wolves or the penalty after the game was over and had no business being called against Brighton, that doesn’t last forever. I don’t watch every United game, but frankly we battered you and it wasn’t close. That team isn’t as good as the record, and I do out that down to management decisions. Players like DVB sitting on the bench for no good reason, leaving players out on the pitch with a yellow to take the red, it’s amateur. I get that Ole is a club legend, but he’s not a great manager.

And as far as your obsession of when I think we should sack Mourinho, it depends. If we brought in someone like Nagelsmann, maybe immediately! But in reality it’s a sliding scale. If we win the league cup and finish 8-9th, I don’t think people will be very happy. If we win the Europa and finish there though, it’s a better outcome. Maybe we win nothing and finish 6th, in which case he should be gone. There are a lot of factors and at this point we’re alive and kicking in 4 competitions, so we’ll see what happens.
Slava is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Slava For This Useful Post:
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:35 PM.

Calgary Flames
2019-20




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2016