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Old 01-13-2021, 09:12 AM   #3581
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ShapIro, signed to a five year extension. While I’ve not been a fan generally at the beginning, I’m starting to come around and I don’t see a problem with it. It’s stability and his primary responsibility is dollars so I’m sure it’ll be around getting the business and political side of the new stadium in place.
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Old 01-13-2021, 09:14 AM   #3582
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yikes, Shatkins continue their reign of mediocrity!
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Old 01-13-2021, 09:48 AM   #3583
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I think it's great news. Provides stability and direction at the top.

IMO Shatkins have done a great job of accumulating young talent through the first phase of this rebuild. Hopefully they can take the team to the next step of being a legit contender, while maintaining the payroll flexibility and farm system required to remain a contender for many, many years.
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Old 01-13-2021, 09:52 AM   #3584
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yikes, Shatkins continue their reign of mediocrity!
Not sure that's fair commentary. When they took over there was a clear need to re-build the asset base, which they've now done.
The key now is if they can take that next step which is to leverage that asset base to be a contender, and not just for a very short window.
But if you were expecting the on field results to already be there - I think your expectations were misaligned.
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Old 01-13-2021, 10:18 AM   #3585
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The key now is if they can take that next step which is to leverage that asset base to be a contender, and not just for a very short window.
Yes. The temptation is now that we have stocked up some assets is to go out and move them to compete right away. I enjoyed the balls to the wall attitude of AA but the success was pretty short lived.

Can we build a team that is a consistently a contender? I think that requires a good amount of patience which is why I think its good that Shapiro has a longer term deal.

I get the frustration of missing out on big name signings and trades. I never loved the idea of raiding the farm/active roster for Lindor at this point in the team's development process. Atkins and Shapiro have an extra challenge this year in that the Jays are very likely going to be always on the road due to border restrictions so I think that added level of uncertainty has handcuffed a team that already needs to overpay to attract free agents.

I think the Jays are now an above .500 team as it stands. I hope that Guerrero being in better shape and a team that can hopefully avoid the injury bug will be even better than that. I really like Romano and I'd much prefer him to Hendriks on that ridiculous deal.
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Old 01-13-2021, 10:19 AM   #3586
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yikes, Shatkins continue their reign of mediocrity!
I disagree. Anthopolous left this team a mess. Very few upper echelon prospects and THE oldest roster in the MLB.

That team was designed for a 2 year window only. He shoved all in, and honestly it was the right move. That franchise badly needed an injection of competitiveness like that after 22 years of failure.

But the job to clean up the mess after was a terribly difficult one. Shapiro and Atkins have navigated it beautifully. Not only are the Jays competitive again after just 3 seasons of futility, they have wave after wave coming down the pipeline and will be healthy for the next decade.

They got to this point by not being hasty and short sighted, as gratifying as that is for a fan in the moment, it isnít beneficial to long term success.
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Old 01-13-2021, 12:01 PM   #3587
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I disagree. Anthopolous left this team a mess. Very few upper echelon prospects and THE oldest roster in the MLB.

That team was designed for a 2 year window only. He shoved all in, and honestly it was the right move. That franchise badly needed an injection of competitiveness like that after 22 years of failure.

But the job to clean up the mess after was a terribly difficult one. Shapiro and Atkins have navigated it beautifully. Not only are the Jays competitive again after just 3 seasons of futility, they have wave after wave coming down the pipeline and will be healthy for the next decade.

They got to this point by not being hasty and short sighted, as gratifying as that is for a fan in the moment, it isnít beneficial to long term success.
This is well said. I agree. I'm excited for the plan to try and build a consistent winner not just a team that scratches to get in every 3-4 years.

I've still my questions about Atkins and he should still be evaluated but Shapiro I think was a no brainer so keep. Baseball ops aside I thikn he's done a good job establishing a culture, good decisions on things like uniforms/money/payroll, and they did an awesome job navigating COVID. he should get credit for that.
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Old 01-13-2021, 12:02 PM   #3588
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I disagree. Anthopolous left this team a mess. Very few upper echelon prospects and THE oldest roster in the MLB.

That team was designed for a 2 year window only. He shoved all in, and honestly it was the right move. That franchise badly needed an injection of competitiveness like that after 22 years of failure.

But the job to clean up the mess after was a terribly difficult one. Shapiro and Atkins have navigated it beautifully. Not only are the Jays competitive again after just 3 seasons of futility, they have wave after wave coming down the pipeline and will be healthy for the next decade.

They got to this point by not being hasty and short sighted, as gratifying as that is for a fan in the moment, it isn’t beneficial to long term success.
Beautifully is a bit of an exageration.

We essentially got no assets for EE, Bautista, Donaldson, and Osuna (Not their fault on that one)

The biggest issue is they actually needed to go full rebuild even sooner and full tank.
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Old 01-13-2021, 12:47 PM   #3589
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Beautifully is a bit of an exageration.

We essentially got no assets for EE, Bautista, Donaldson, and Osuna (Not their fault on that one)

The biggest issue is they actually needed to go full rebuild even sooner and full tank.
Donaldson was mishandled, yes, but NOBODY saw that steep of a decline coming and the injuries that he sustained.

Edwin turned in to Nate Pearson with the compensatory pick.

Bautista, yes that could have turned out different. But in 2017 the Jays had the issue of still being a somewhat contending team, facing an inevitable rebuild. They probably should have dealt him - but his decline was also rather sharp and his value would have been minimal. And trading him in 2016 would not have been an option.

Osuna returned Giles, and although that didn’t work out, it very well could have. Injuries really derailed any ability for the Jays to turn Giles in to any other assets.
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Old 01-13-2021, 12:52 PM   #3590
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Giles was actually pretty good when he was healthy. The timings of his injuries were always the worst for us though. Had he been healthy at the trade deadline a couple of years ago he could have brought a decent return.
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Old 01-13-2021, 01:03 PM   #3591
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Not to mention the Jays were not even supposed to be able to get anything for Osuna given the circumstances. They managed to get some quality out it until it got ruined by injury.

I also don't get the they should have rebuilt sooner crowd. In hindsight sure but that would mean coming off back to back ALCS visits they should have spent that offseason shipping out Bautista, Donaldson etc? (EE was already a FA an you weren't going to trade him in the midst of a playoff push). Easy to say as a fan but almost no organizations would do that.
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Old 01-13-2021, 01:45 PM   #3592
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Not to mention the Jays were not even supposed to be able to get anything for Osuna given the circumstances. They managed to get some quality out it until it got ruined by injury.

I also don't get the they should have rebuilt sooner crowd. In hindsight sure but that would mean coming off back to back ALCS visits they should have spent that offseason shipping out Bautista, Donaldson etc? (EE was already a FA an you weren't going to trade him in the midst of a playoff push). Easy to say as a fan but almost no organizations would do that.
Not to mention that at that time baseball was going through a transition phase where prospect capital were valued more than aging MVP's. I think that market has adjusted somewhat now, but the market for Bautista and Donaldson were pretty non-existent by that time anyways.
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Old 01-13-2021, 02:08 PM   #3593
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Giles was pretty good?

He was F-ing amazing until Montoyo broke him in the summer of 2019 right before the deadline.

Pitch your stud closer 3 games in a row when the team is nowhere near a pennant race. What an idiot.
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Old 01-13-2021, 03:41 PM   #3594
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I didn’t actually know EE comp pick was used on Nate! Thanks
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Old 01-14-2021, 12:17 AM   #3595
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Giles was pretty good?

He was F-ing amazing until Montoyo broke him in the summer of 2019 right before the deadline.

Pitch your stud closer 3 games in a row when the team is nowhere near a pennant race. What an idiot.
I get irrationally upset thinking about that.
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Old 01-14-2021, 12:31 AM   #3596
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I didnít actually know EE comp pick was used on Nate! Thanks
Neither did I, the thing I didn't like about that was they waited until just before he hit free agency to make an offer so hearing that takes away a lot of the sting.

I didn't like a lot of the moves that were made early on starting with not making Price an offer but they've built a young team that worth being excited about so I can't say I'm upset about the extension. I just hope they don't extend Montoyo after this season.
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Old 01-14-2021, 08:09 AM   #3597
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Jays current management inherited some really key pieces in this organization.

They now need to find a way to secure top players to take them to the next level

So far, they have been unable to make the signings and or trade this off-season.

Off-season isn't over yet, however the Jays have been a none factor so far.
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Old 01-14-2021, 11:02 AM   #3598
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Jays current management inherited some really key pieces in this organization.

They now need to find a way to secure top players to take them to the next level

So far, they have been unable to make the signings and or trade this off-season.


Off-season isn't over yet, however the Jays have been a none factor so far.

Other than Ha-Seong Kim there hasn't been a signing or trade yet that I wish the Jays had out bid the other team.

And even with Kim I'm not sure the Jays should have guaranteed a roster spot for him.
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Old 01-14-2021, 11:08 AM   #3599
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Other than Ha-Seong Kim there hasn't been a signing or trade yet that I wish the Jays had out bid the other team.

And even with Kim I'm not sure the Jays should have guaranteed a roster spot for him.
Exactly, and people tend to forget that signing with a Canadian team has it's own nuances and difficulties that many people aren't interested in. It sucks, but it is always something the Blue Jays will have against them.
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Old 01-14-2021, 11:35 AM   #3600
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Jays definitely need to add to their roster if they want to show progression.

Their outfield is lacking, they don't have a 3rd baseman and they require another top end pitcher.

I personally would have liked both of these to be completed.

Francisco Lindor, Carlos Carrasco definitely would have helped,

Ha-Seong Kim obviously would have helped
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