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Old 09-17-2014, 09:23 PM   #41
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That will not go down well in the big smoke
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Old 09-17-2014, 09:46 PM   #42
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That will not go down well in the big smoke
I've been in TO all week. It'll be a welcome break from the nonstop Rob Ford coverage.
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Old 09-18-2014, 09:18 AM   #43
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So Kessel's 15 pounds overweight and is dictating to coaches what he's going to do? Sounds like Lewiske was right and while it's no secret the Leafs are stringing along the current coaching staff only to fire them at the end of the season to pursue Babcock if he doesnt' stick with the Wings it sounds like the dressing room is in for a rude awakening. If they do hire Babcock he will instantly become the most powerful man in the locker room and guys like Kessel will lose any power they think they have.
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Old 09-18-2014, 09:45 AM   #44
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Kessel's a dink. Fits right in with a Phaneuf captained team. I agree that the Leafs seem to have some pretty bad character issues (maybe just a few, but that's all it takes).
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Old 09-18-2014, 09:49 AM   #45
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Damn those fat cats in Toronto!

This is great news though, most people in Ontario here are leaf fans and it's annoying as heck because every year is "their year" A couple of days ago a buddy on mine was saying he had a feeling Kessel would score close to 50 and the leafs would be a force in the east.

This is awesome.
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Old 09-18-2014, 09:52 AM   #46
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The Oilers would be a force in the East.
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Old 09-18-2014, 09:54 AM   #47
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kessel's fine. he's been as advertised, and puts up points consistently on the team. not every player is a 2 way guy.

i actually lay this entire fiasco on the shoulders of this amateur coach. if he doesn't know what type of info is worth stating to people at public events then he's not fit to be a coach of a media hungry market like toronto.

i realize he was at a coaching clinic, but does the story lose any impact for whatever the heck his point/lesson was, if he just left the player name out of it? If his point was that a big difference about coaching at the NHL level vs any other is that you're dealing with million dollar investments, and they aren't as easy to change in their ways as in other leagues, keeping kessel's name out of hte story would have had the same frigin effect.

this spatt dude seems like an idiot. way to get your career, and a team's training camp out on the right foot. curious how long this guy stays in the nhl.
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Old 09-18-2014, 10:11 AM   #48
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kessel's fine. he's been as advertised, and puts up points consistently on the team. not every player is a 2 way guy.

i actually lay this entire fiasco on the shoulders of this amateur coach. if he doesn't know what type of info is worth stating to people at public events then he's not fit to be a coach of a media hungry market like toronto.

i realize he was at a coaching clinic, but does the story lose any impact for whatever the heck his point/lesson was, if he just left the player name out of it? If his point was that a big difference about coaching at the NHL level vs any other is that you're dealing with million dollar investments, and they aren't as easy to change in their ways as in other leagues, keeping kessel's name out of hte story would have had the same frigin effect.

this spatt dude seems like an idiot. way to get your career, and a team's training camp out on the right foot. curious how long this guy stays in the nhl.
Well first of all, if your advanced stats are as bad as the Leafs then you need to make changes to the style your team plays, and everyone has to buy in, so Phil DOES have to be open to coaching, period.

As far as the coach goes, I think he's not protecting himself very well here, but I think he's completely entitled to show how ridiculous the situation is in Toronto, where the player controls so much and is backed up by upper management. Maybe the fans will pause the next time a coach is made the scapegoat for the team's inability to succeed and start lashing out at players instead. Lord knows it almost happened here with Iginla and crew.

Honestly, do you really think this coach is an idiot for trying to help the team improve, and then using the media as a tool to curry favor with the masses? I think it's crafty, likely leading to his downfall, but will hopefully spur some change within the organization.
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Old 09-18-2014, 10:24 AM   #49
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Yeah, the coach isn't long for the leafs and will be fired at the first opportunity IMO. There isn't an organization on earth that likes having their dirty laundry aired by employees. Though I do enjoy hearing about how the leafs fail.

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Old 09-18-2014, 10:27 AM   #50
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Yeah, the coach isn't long for the leafs and will be fired at the first opportunity IMO. There isn't an organization on earth that likes having their dirty aired by employees. Though I do enjoy hearing about how the leafs fail.
I'm sure he's like the rest of the staff in that they all know they are not going to be around next season. While his candor is misplaced as a fan it's nice to hear proof right from the source that highly paid players typically do have more power than the coaches.
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Old 09-18-2014, 10:31 AM   #51
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Well first of all, if your advanced stats are as bad as the Leafs then you need to make changes to the style your team plays, and everyone has to buy in, so Phil DOES have to be open to coaching, period.

As far as the coach goes, I think he's not protecting himself very well here, but I think he's completely entitled to show how ridiculous the situation is in Toronto, where the player controls so much and is backed up by upper management. Maybe the fans will pause the next time a coach is made the scapegoat for the team's inability to succeed and start lashing out at players instead. Lord knows it almost happened here with Iginla and crew.

Honestly, do you really think this coach is an idiot for trying to help the team improve, and then using the media as a tool to curry favor with the masses? I think it's crafty, likely leading to his downfall, but will hopefully spur some change within the organization.
sorry let me rephrase.

what i'm trying to say is that the coach is an idiot, not for trying to improve the team, but to spouting off about how the message is being received and singling out the 1 allstar/franchise player on the team as the guy who refuses, is fat, etc.

way to start your assistant coaching career in the NHL. Bash the arguably best player on your team to the public, and start your team's training camp with controversy.

you're right that kessel/any leaf isn't in a position to not be open to change, considering what they've done the past few years hasn't worked. as a new coach, you'd be smart to learn how to win trust of your players inside the dressing room. crying in front of the public shows you just aren't ready for the big leagues or the big markets.
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Old 09-18-2014, 10:36 AM   #52
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It's my personal feeling that when you are the highest paid player on the team and supposedly their best player that coming into camp out of shape sets a poor example. There's really no excuse and it reaffirms all the negatives we have heard about Kessel in the past. Say what you want about Phaneuf but he badly wants to be the 'guy' as he's always in top shape and tries to be a leader. He's not good enough on the ice and off but it's not for lack of effort. It appears Kessel doesn't even care. Just wants to score his 40 goals and have a nice relaxing summer.
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Old 09-18-2014, 10:53 AM   #53
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It's my personal feeling that when you are the highest paid player on the team and supposedly their best player that coming into camp out of shape sets a poor example. There's really no excuse and it reaffirms all the negatives we have heard about Kessel in the past. Say what you want about Phaneuf but he badly wants to be the 'guy' as he's always in top shape and tries to be a leader. He's not good enough on the ice and off but it's not for lack of effort. It appears Kessel doesn't even care. Just wants to score his 40 goals and have a nice relaxing summer.
i tend to agree.

that being said, he's arguably the fastest skater, at least first 5 stride explosive speed player in the entire NHL. Given that, does it matter if he's got baby fat? Kessel gets hated on too much. i'm not a fan of his or anything, but having to watch leaf games living out here, he's an offensively gifted player who gives your team 35 goals and 70ish points a game. do note that is with tyler bozak as his center!

really, he's like patrick kane, except that kane has toews and other leaders that take charge of the team, such that he isn't in the spotlight in that realm. Kessel is on a roster where it's only him and phaneuf.

He is similar in nature to kane.. Dynamic players, but only in one dimension, and with character/leaderhip skills that are likely questionable at best if looked at in isolation.

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Old 09-18-2014, 10:56 AM   #54
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kessel's fine. he's been as advertised, and puts up points consistently on the team. not every player is a 2 way guy.

i actually lay this entire fiasco on the shoulders of this amateur coach. if he doesn't know what type of info is worth stating to people at public events then he's not fit to be a coach of a media hungry market like toronto.

i realize he was at a coaching clinic, but does the story lose any impact for whatever the heck his point/lesson was, if he just left the player name out of it? If his point was that a big difference about coaching at the NHL level vs any other is that you're dealing with million dollar investments, and they aren't as easy to change in their ways as in other leagues, keeping kessel's name out of hte story would have had the same frigin effect.

this spatt dude seems like an idiot. way to get your career, and a team's training camp out on the right foot. curious how long this guy stays in the nhl.
Not a smart move by Spatt but you don't win with guys like Kessel. Look at the Hawks - they have a way of taking care of their business and the leaders and best players reinforce that. There is a reason Toews is Captain Serious - he demands accountability.

No one is holding Phil accountable.

I'll take a shot at the ex-captain here, but this is why Iginla was a problem in his final years.
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Old 09-18-2014, 10:59 AM   #55
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Not a smart move by Spatt but you don't win with guys like Kessel. Look at the Hawks - they have a way of taking care of their business and the leaders and best players reinforce that. There is a reason Toews is Captain Serious - he demands accountability.

No one is holding Phil accountable.

I'll take a shot at the ex-captain here, but this is why Iginla was a problem in his final years.
the hawks are great as they have a player in kane, with elite offensive ability, lacking in character/leadership/defense/etc, but are able to insulate him and cover his deficiencies with other strong players like toews, keith, seabrook, sharp, etc, etc.

kessel has phaneuf. Would kane be as successful, or viewed differently if he was in kessel's place with the leafs. how would kessel do on the hawks?

i'd say both teams would fair exactly as they do today, with kane/kessel interchanged.
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Old 09-18-2014, 11:18 AM   #56
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Looks like Burke learned a few lessons in TO. Flames seem very focused on players character and intelligence.

Don't want 1 way show boaters who turn the puck over in key situations and float around the ice waiting for line mates to create opportunities for them. Exactly why guys like Kessel and Ovechkin will never get a sniff of a championship. Can't be coached just want the individual stats.
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Old 09-18-2014, 11:58 AM   #57
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Not a smart move by Spatt but you don't win with guys like Kessel. Look at the Hawks - they have a way of taking care of their business and the leaders and best players reinforce that. There is a reason Toews is Captain Serious - he demands accountability.

No one is holding Phil accountable.

I'll take a shot at the ex-captain here, but this is why Iginla was a problem in his final years.
IMO Kane is in the perfect situation in Chicago with strong leadership from Teows and Quenneville. I would think Kane could have been a major diva if he was drafted into a locker room devoid of accountability such as the Oilers or Leafs.
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Old 09-18-2014, 01:22 PM   #58
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the hawks are great as they have a player in kane, with elite offensive ability, lacking in character/leadership/defense/etc, but are able to insulate him and cover his deficiencies with other strong players like toews, keith, seabrook, sharp, etc, etc.

kessel has phaneuf. Would kane be as successful, or viewed differently if he was in kessel's place with the leafs. how would kessel do on the hawks?

i'd say both teams would fair exactly as they do today, with kane/kessel interchanged.
IMO you can say Kane may have (past) character issues and lacks the leadership that someone like Toews has, but his defensive game meets the same requirements as every other member of the Hawks. That's what is being discussed here. Are your best players above certain parts of the game just because they contribute in other ways. Certain things, yes. You don't expect Kane to be throwing his body at everyone or be out on the PK blocking shots. But when he is on the ice, his expectations for playing the TEAM part of the game (aka playing without the puck) are the same as everyone elses. And you can bet that his good buddy Toews is in his ear if he's not.

That is not happening here with the Leafs. If your best player is not expected to be your best player everywhere, you won't hacve a successful team. You just won't. Kane likely wouldn't be who he is on the Leafs because the problem is with the Leafs allowing top players to act this way (Kadri is the same IMO). And Kessel likely would either be a better all around player (if he took lessons from his teammates and coaches) or be on a different team by now. Successful teams understand that effort has to go up and down the lineup. Kane's skillset and size prevent him from playing the type of game that someone like Bollig does, but that doesn't mean his effort is less.

This story is telling me that Kessel's effort is less. He doesn't want to skate ALL the way across the ice? Is that too far to drag his fat ass? Maybe he disagrees with the tactic, which is fine, but that's something you challenge later on, not in the middle of drills at practice. Maybe he's telling you to go that far so you can shed your All-Star-15 before the season opens? The short of it is, it doesn't matter. You listen to your coach and apply the team game they are trying impliment, whatever the system is. If you have a problem with it, go to the coach/management after, voice your concerns and/or request a trade. Slack assing to get your way shows a lack of maturity/respect for his coaches and specifically his teammates on his part and a lack of balls from the coaching staff to tell their "star" where to go and how to get there.

A sports team is not a democracy. No workplace is.
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Old 09-18-2014, 01:55 PM   #59
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IMO Kane is in the perfect situation in Chicago with strong leadership from Teows and Quenneville. I would think Kane could have been a major diva if he was drafted into a locker room devoid of accountability such as the Oilers or Leafs.
Precisely.
I recently watched the 30 for 30 on the Pistons. Bill Lambeer and others talked about when a new player came into the room, they told them "this is how we do things - this is how you will do things". You either did it or you had Bill F'n Lambeer on you.

You need leadership like that. Toronto has NONE of it. At times nor did the Flames.
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Old 09-18-2014, 01:59 PM   #60
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Precisely.
I recently watched the 30 for 30 on the Pistons. Bill Lambeer and others talked about when a new player came into the room, they told them "this is how we do things - this is how you will do things". You either did it or you had Bill F'n Lambeer on you.

You need leadership like that. Toronto has NONE of it. At times nor did the Flames.
In Toronto when a new player comes into the room all they have to do is change the radio station and they have the entire team and media tripping over themselves with joy.
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