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Old 01-12-2021, 03:08 PM   #361
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I thought that the roster size was still 22-23 players that counts against the salary cap and 4-6 players for the taxi squad that does not.
You can have 20-23 players on your official roster at anytime.

The Flames are going to utilize the taxi squad to stash their 12/13th (depending on if you consider Ryan the 12th forward over Nordstrom) forward and 7th dman to reap the cap savings.

It’s a loophole that they are going to exploit as capspace is limited and any savings will be extremely handy down the line.
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Old 01-12-2021, 03:28 PM   #362
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We won't have answers on Kylington unless he gets to play. They need to give him an opportunity to show whether or not he can cut it at this level. I just hope to god that when that first injury happens that it isn't Stone getting reps ahead of Mackey and Kylington. I hope the kids trade off every second night or something along those lines.

The one thing that bugs me most about how the Flames have operated in recent years is when players get shut down after that first look with the club and don't get that second chance to show their growth. Czarnik and Quine immediately come to mind (I know they werent Flames picks, but both played very well after being sent to Stockton and arguably earned further looks). Kalak as well, and there were many others.

Like others have said he's a project. So he's probably worth a few follow up looks, because he wasn't going to step in right away no matter what.

Backlund was also a project at one time, and patience and commitment to his development even though it took 3-4 partial seasons paid off for them huge. I'd like to see them exercise the same patience with some of these kids that they themselves picked to be projects because of their raw upside.
The Flames are the 6th youngest roster to open the season in the entire league.

They don't have a systemic issue with not playing young players, ... quite the opposite really.

But they have to make a half dozen or so calls every year. You don't hang on to a guy if you don't think his chance of popping is all that high. With that every team will get some right and some wrong.

Kulak was wrong for sure, but sure to what degree. Who is he playing ahead of Calgary right now? Nesterov?
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Old 01-12-2021, 03:35 PM   #363
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The Flames are the 6th youngest roster to open the season in the entire league.

They don't have a systemic issue with not playing young players, ... quite the opposite really.

But they have to make a half dozen or so calls every year. You don't hang on to a guy if you don't think his chance of popping is all that high. With that every team will get some right and some wrong.

Kulak was wrong for sure, but sure to what degree. Who is he playing ahead of Calgary right now? Nesterov?
I liked Kulak but I donít understand the outrage.

Hanifin
Valimaki
Mackey
Kylington

We donít really need another LS dman and he isnít really proving to be a top 4 guy so it was a good thing to let him go elsewhere and build an NHL career.
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Old 01-12-2021, 03:40 PM   #364
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We won't have answers on Kylington unless he gets to play. They need to give him an opportunity to show whether or not he can cut it at this level. I just hope to god that when that first injury happens that it isn't Stone getting reps ahead of Mackey and Kylington. I hope the kids trade off every second night or something along those lines.

The one thing that bugs me most about how the Flames have operated in recent years is when players get shut down after that first look with the club and don't get that second chance to show their growth. Czarnik and Quine immediately come to mind (I know they werent Flames picks, but both played very well after being sent to Stockton and arguably earned further looks). Kalak as well, and there were many others.

Like others have said he's a project. So he's probably worth a few follow up looks, because he wasn't going to step in right away no matter what.

Backlund was also a project at one time, and patience and commitment to his development even though it took 3-4 partial seasons paid off for them huge. I'd like to see them exercise the same patience with some of these kids that they themselves picked to be projects because of their raw upside.
Both were on waivers yesterday and the whole league passed them by. Keep in mind that we see a very small fraction of a players performance. If a player is consistently the worst on drills for instance and as a result the coach chooses to keep them out of the lineup...then in his one game in...he makes a big mistake and gets sent down.

What you see is a player that made one mistake and got sent down...what the coach saw was 3 weeks of the worst player on the ice and he wants to give someone who has earned it a chance...even if they are older.

For the record...what a GM sees is an asset that is quickly dropping in value, a constrained amount of ice time, a team that needs to perform this year and a bunch of guys complaining that they are not getting enough of that ice time. He/She also needs to balance the perception of giving free agents a chance...otherwise the next free agent window will be very quiet...
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Old 01-12-2021, 03:42 PM   #365
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Here's something to look out for prior to the opening night roster being announced at 3.

Valimaki's cap hit is $110,000 more than Kylington's and Valimaki is waiver-exempt, so we could see Valimaki on the Taxi Squad to start the season with Kylington on the active roster. Then, they could be swapped out prior to the game on Thursday.

Keep that in mind if Valimaki is on the Taxi Squad in 20 minutes. Don't panic!
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Old 01-12-2021, 03:44 PM   #366
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Here's something to look out for prior to the opening night roster being announced at 3.

Valimaki's cap hit is $110,000 more than Kylington's and Valimaki is waiver-exempt, so we could see Valimaki on the Taxi Squad to start the season with Kylington on the active roster. Then, they could be swapped out prior to the game on Thursday.

Keep that in mind if Valimaki is on the Taxi Squad in 20 minutes. Don't panic!
Conroy said that don't plan to do that with Valimaki or Dube since they are both big part of the future
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Old 01-12-2021, 03:50 PM   #367
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Never understood the angst over Kulak either

Under Treliving, the Flames have been in the top half of the league each year, and have had a younger than average team each year, yet every year we get fans saying teh Flames don't give young guys a chance.

Meanwhile, we will have Flame draft picks Monahan, Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Backlund, Bennett, Mangiapane, and Dube up front, along with Andersson, Valimaki and Kylington on the point.

But we totally blew it on Kulak!
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Old 01-12-2021, 04:03 PM   #368
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If a player is moved in from the taxi squad, are they still subject to the 30-day limit before having to clear waivers again? I am assuming that they are treating it the same as calling up someone from the minors.
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Old 01-12-2021, 04:05 PM   #369
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If a player is moved in from the taxi squad, are they still subject to the 30-day limit before having to clear waivers again? I am assuming that they are treating it the same as calling up someone from the minors.
Yea itís 30 days or 10 games.

So Ryan will be subject to this.

Makes me wonder if we will have to waive him again if we plan to do this all season?
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Old 01-12-2021, 04:14 PM   #370
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Here's something to look out for prior to the opening night roster being announced at 3.

Valimaki's cap hit is $110,000 more than Kylington's and Valimaki is waiver-exempt, so we could see Valimaki on the Taxi Squad to start the season with Kylington on the active roster. Then, they could be swapped out prior to the game on Thursday.

Keep that in mind if Valimaki is on the Taxi Squad in 20 minutes. Don't panic!
Oh there will be panic and outrage! They better call in the military to protect the Saddledome from insurrection.
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Old 01-12-2021, 04:15 PM   #371
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I believe it's actually 10 games or 24 days now, not 30. Or is that just LTIR?
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Old 01-12-2021, 04:17 PM   #372
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Never understood the angst over Kulak either

Under Treliving, the Flames have been in the top half of the league each year, and have had a younger than average team each year, yet every year we get fans saying teh Flames don't give young guys a chance.

Meanwhile, we will have Flame draft picks Monahan, Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Backlund, Bennett, Mangiapane, and Dube up front, along with Andersson, Valimaki and Kylington on the point.

But we totally blew it on Kulak!
I agree with everything you said here.......

but in addition to that, not being able to find a way to keep Kulak (just as an example), or some other capable bottom pairing guy that you drafted and developed (or are developing) means that you could be giving up futures at the trade deadline to replace the depth you lost on the waiver wire. That's not ideal either.

My concern about the Kylington waiver specifically isn't about "the Flames not giving young guys a chance", but more so that they had other options that didn't require exposing Kylington to waivers at all. I guess Treliving felt the extra $700,000 in cap savings was worth the risk. Turns out his gamble worked. Today he has the cap flexibility and still has the player. Good for him! Kulak is just an example of when it maybe didn't work (although I genuinely felt at the time that the team was trying to give Kulak a chance to play in the NHL).

I don't think I would have taken the risk, personally. But I'm glad Kylington cleared. I suspect Treliving is glad too.
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Old 01-12-2021, 04:18 PM   #373
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We won't have answers on Kylington unless he gets to play. They need to give him an opportunity to show whether or not he can cut it at this level. I just hope to god that when that first injury happens that it isn't Stone getting reps ahead of Mackey and Kylington. I hope the kids trade off every second night or something along those lines.

The one thing that bugs me most about how the Flames have operated in recent years is when players get shut down after that first look with the club and don't get that second chance to show their growth. Czarnik and Quine immediately come to mind (I know they werent Flames picks, but both played very well after being sent to Stockton and arguably earned further looks). Kalak as well, and there were many others.

Like others have said he's a project. So he's probably worth a few follow up looks, because he wasn't going to step in right away no matter what.

Backlund was also a project at one time, and patience and commitment to his development even though it took 3-4 partial seasons paid off for them huge. I'd like to see them exercise the same patience with some of these kids that they themselves picked to be projects because of their raw upside.
He's been played in 87 games so it's not like he hasn't had opportunity. No matter how you slice it, he's not getting the #6 spot over Nesterov at the start of the year. Once the AHL starts up, you don't want your prospects not playing, sitting on the taxi squad which is why we've seen guys like Stone and Prout around for that #7 role.

He'll still get more chances to play, sooner or later.
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Old 01-12-2021, 05:10 PM   #374
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I agree with everything you said here.......

but in addition to that, not being able to find a way to keep Kulak (just as an example), or some other capable bottom pairing guy that you drafted and developed (or are developing) means that you could be giving up futures at the trade deadline to replace the depth you lost on the waiver wire. That's not ideal either.

My concern about the Kylington waiver specifically isn't about "the Flames not giving young guys a chance", but more so that they had other options that didn't require exposing Kylington to waivers at all. I guess Treliving felt the extra $700,000 in cap savings was worth the risk. Turns out his gamble worked. Today he has the cap flexibility and still has the player. Good for him! Kulak is just an example of when it maybe didn't work (although I genuinely felt at the time that the team was trying to give Kulak a chance to play in the NHL).

I don't think I would have taken the risk, personally. But I'm glad Kylington cleared. I suspect Treliving is glad too.
I hear you, but no team is going to bat 1.000

At the time, I also felt that they were doing Kulak a solid and giving him the opportunity elsewhere. And I have zero problem with it because I don't see much more upside in him.

Kylington was a bigger risk, IMO. I think he does have more upside. I am curious though, what other options you think were available to them?
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Old 01-12-2021, 06:54 PM   #375
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GMs regularly make major mistakes. I don't take this as a consensus that he's not an NHL player.

I concede that he is a tweener. But a tweener with one borderline elite skill - skating. You can make a player out of this guy IMO.
Rico. Fata.
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Old 01-12-2021, 07:24 PM   #376
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Even Rico Fata scored 16 goals in a season.
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Old 01-13-2021, 01:52 PM   #377
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Even Rico Fata scored 16 goals in a season.
... for an execrable, last-place Pittsburgh Penguins team. He benefitted from a massive increase in playing time, because the Pens bench was so terribly short. His plus/minus that year was a staggeringly bad -46. That's the worst single-season plus/minus in the last 27 years, only equalled last season by Andreas Athanasiou.

It's no coincidence that in the 57 games played over the rest of Rico Fata's NHL career his stat line was 4 goals, 5 assists, -1, 24 PIM
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Old 01-14-2021, 02:41 PM   #378
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I liked Kulak but I donít understand the outrage.

Hanifin
Valimaki
Mackey
Kylington

We donít really need another LS dman and he isnít really proving to be a top 4 guy so it was a good thing to let him go elsewhere and build an NHL career.
Plus, theyíd been through arb, and he therefore was (a) unhappy and (b) not tied up long term, so the headache was coming back soon enough.
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