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Old 01-12-2021, 10:10 AM   #3981
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I had high hopes for Garneau going in, he was one of the few Liberal Cabinet Ministers who I had a lot of respect for, but I don't think he's exactly a Trudeau loyalist and he's been punished with what should have been a undistinguished non resume building post.



His hands off approach to the airlines during this situation, and the utterly confusing new rules for passengers have really put the Airlines in jeopardy. That's on him for either having no clue, or not pushing it hard enough.


But yeah, he's been a bust so far.
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Old 01-13-2021, 10:36 AM   #3982
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Air Canada can't wait for help from the Federal Government, drops their capacity by a quarter and gun decks 1700 people joining the 1000 laid off by West Jet last week.
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Old 01-13-2021, 10:57 AM   #3983
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Our Federal government has absolutely mishandled this part of the transportation sector during the pandemic. It's a effing disgrace what they have done to our airlines. They are probably high fiving themselves over how they are reducing GHG's and saving the planet.

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Old 01-13-2021, 11:12 AM   #3984
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Our Federal government has absolutely mishandled this part of the transportation sector during the pandemic. It's a effing disgrace what they have done to our airlines. They are probably high fiving themselves over how they are reducing GHG's and saving the planet.
In what way?
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Old 01-13-2021, 11:21 AM   #3985
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In what way?
Canada is the only G7 country that has not provided financial support for their airline industry. We are trying to survive in a world where our airlines competitors have all received assistance. At the same time they have kneecapped the industry with an incoherent travel strategy both internally and externally while at the same time publically stating they expect the airlines to maintain a minimum level of service.
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Old 01-13-2021, 11:22 AM   #3986
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I have a feeling that we're going to see a Spring snap election call by Trudeau.
Considering they're floating in the 200 seat majority area while the CPC legitimately looks like they could lose official opposition status, yeah, might look like a good time for them.
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Old 01-13-2021, 11:32 AM   #3987
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Canada is the only G7 country that has not provided financial support for their airline industry. We are trying to survive in a world where our airlines competitors have all received assistance. At the same time they have kneecapped the industry with an incoherent travel strategy both internally and externally while at the same time publically stating they expect the airlines to maintain a minimum level of service.
Exactly.

And to add, when I was first discussing the pre departure test that the Liberals brought in without much thought, I remember the phrase “but what’s the harm?” Well, the harm is thousands more unemployed, and again putting the long term financial health of the transportation industry in jeopardy. For a knee jerk ineffectual solution to an almost non existent problem done solely for the optics that the government was doing something.

But other than that, what’s the harm right?
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Old 01-13-2021, 11:53 AM   #3988
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Canada is the only G7 country that has not provided financial support for their airline industry. We are trying to survive in a world where our airlines competitors have all received assistance. At the same time they have kneecapped the industry with an incoherent travel strategy both internally and externally while at the same time publically stating they expect the airlines to maintain a minimum level of service.
Isn't that specific to major carriers, in the sense that they have not provided any financial support directed solely to major carriers?

There's the CEWS, CERB, LEEF (or whatever it is) plus hundreds of millions in support for regional airlines and airports, no? I don't think it's fair to say they've provided "nothing" to the airline industry as a whole.

Same airline industry where the major players refused to provide refunds for cancelled flights, mind you. That was a months-long journey to get my money back from WestJet. Not something that inspires sympathy, honestly, and you read the amount of people jumping from voucher to voucher, booking flights and cancelling them just to extend the expiry of their voucher, it all seems a bit crazy.

I guess if they're looking at wanting billions of dollars in direct support, refunding people is essential. And similar to the situation in Germany, they should probably be prepared to hand over a significant share of ownership of the major player airlines to the government.

I haven't found the travel strategy to be incoherent but to each their own.
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Old 01-13-2021, 11:55 AM   #3989
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Considering they're floating in the 200 seat majority area while the CPC legitimately looks like they could lose official opposition status, yeah, might look like a good time for them.

I don't know if I trust polling anymore, not just in this case, but it almost feels like, here's you're poll with an accuracy rating of -100 to 100.


I do think that Justin is going to find a way to pull the trigger before they have to do anymore financial disclosures like a budget, and before we're too deep into the vaccination numbers. I expect something before April.
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Old 01-13-2021, 12:01 PM   #3990
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This Maclean's article seems to share a positive opinion of Marc.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canad...?ocid=msedgdhp

Is it common for people to view him negatively in conservative circles?

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Old 01-13-2021, 12:07 PM   #3991
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Normally not, I like Marc Garneau, he should have been given a higher profile cabinet position from the start, he would have been a far better Minister of Defense then the one we have now. Frankly if Garneau had won the Liberal leadership, I probably would have voted for him.

I think he was shuffled to a lower profile cabinet position because he's not exactly a Trudeau guy, and because of that, he's been pretty un inspiring for the last few years, and been called out for his inactivity on files and his slow pace.

He's been moved into what's starting to look like a jump seat cabinet position in Foreign Affairs. He's got massive files with grenade potential on his desk. I hope he does well at it, But the China file, the America file with a protectionist Biden are both going to be through priorities for him to muddle through.

When Trudeau was elected, I said he would do ok if he had the bench strength and would surround himself with a cabinet that could balance out his inexperience and other things. Garneau was one of the guys I had in mind, instead he's pretty much vanished for the last 5 years.
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Old 01-13-2021, 12:33 PM   #3992
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I don't know if I trust polling anymore, not just in this case, but it almost feels like, here's you're poll with an accuracy rating of -100 to 100.
Based on what? The pollsters were well within the 2-3% MoE in the last two federal elections and got the seat projections pretty much bang on. They also nailed most of the most recent provincial elections.

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I do think that Justin is going to find a way to pull the trigger before they have to do anymore financial disclosures like a budget, and before we're too deep into the vaccination numbers. I expect something before April.
To be fair, you were also banging the drum of a fall election that never came close to materializing.
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Old 01-13-2021, 12:41 PM   #3993
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Isn't that specific to major carriers, in the sense that they have not provided any financial support directed solely to major carriers?



There's the CEWS, CERB, LEEF (or whatever it is) plus hundreds of millions in support for regional airlines and airports, no? I don't think it's fair to say they've provided "nothing" to the airline industry as a whole.



Same airline industry where the major players refused to provide refunds for cancelled flights, mind you. That was a months-long journey to get my money back from WestJet. Not something that inspires sympathy, honestly, and you read the amount of people jumping from voucher to voucher, booking flights and cancelling them just to extend the expiry of their voucher, it all seems a bit crazy.



I guess if they're looking at wanting billions of dollars in direct support, refunding people is essential. And similar to the situation in Germany, they should probably be prepared to hand over a significant share of ownership of the major player airlines to the government.



I haven't found the travel strategy to be incoherent but to each their own.
I believe the CEWS assistance was intended to keep employees on the payroll so that they could access benefits, that would otherwise have been laid off. It was never used to finance the operation.

The refund thing was tricky. There was no way for the airlines to appear as anything but the villain. Anyone who dropped 5 grand on a trip to Hawaii and couldn't get it back after losing their job would be rightfully pissed.

But if the airlines, at the time had issued refunds for the applicable cancellations they would have had to close up shop. Full stop. They were burning through cash at an alarming rate as it was. It was survival mode as a business. I'm not super familiar with the legality of it, but they deemed it within their refund policy to issue travel credit instead of cash refunds.

If the government had stepped in with assistance earlier with low interest or zero interest loans as the airlines are asking for, I believe that people would have received cash refunds much earlier.

International travel is very much about getting your foot in the door and keeping it there. Thats why Air Canada was flying wide bodies over oceans with a handful of people on board. Its why the airlines are pissed that the Canadian government has given peanuts for assistance while their international competitors with government backing are snapping up market share.

For the general public, I get it. People aren't laying awake at night worried about large corporations, and in 2 years they're just going to buy the cheapest ticket on whatever color of airplane is flying to Vegas and then complain that their latte was tepid. For people with skin in the game, its a unsettling time in the industry.
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Old 01-13-2021, 12:44 PM   #3994
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Isn't that specific to major carriers, in the sense that they have not provided any financial support directed solely to major carriers?

There's the CEWS, CERB, LEEF (or whatever it is) plus hundreds of millions in support for regional airlines and airports, no? I don't think it's fair to say they've provided "nothing" to the airline industry as a whole.

I haven't found the travel strategy to be incoherent but to each their own.
Just to speak to this point. CEWS, CERB etc. doesn't do much to help the airlines in many ways. It encourages employers to keep employees on staff by subsidizing their wages which is admirable from the government' perspective. No arguement there. But the airlines still need to pay some of the wages, they need to continue to pay benefits, CPP, EI etc. for all those employees. And in the case of certain employees (flight crew) they have to continue to pay training costs for a workforce that is barely doing any work. because there is no flying. The government's focus (rightly or wrongly) has been on keeping people employed but that does come at an expense to the employer.
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Old 01-13-2021, 12:47 PM   #3995
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Based on what? The pollsters were well within the 2-3% MoE in the last two federal elections and got the seat projections pretty much bang on. They also nailed most of the most recent provincial elections.



To be fair, you were also banging the drum of a fall election that never came close to materializing.

That's because the NDP pretty much sold out to protect their lack of funding. I wonder if there's a poison pill that he's going to play to get Singh off of his lap.
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Old 01-18-2021, 12:39 PM   #3996
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No place for 'far right' in Conservative Party, Erin O'Toole says

https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/politi...says-1.5270396

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Federal Conservative Leader Erin O'Toole pushed back against attempts to link his party to Trump-style politics on Sunday, saying there is "no place for the far right" in the Tories while accusing the Liberals of divisive dirty tricks.

In a statement Sunday, O'Toole asserted his own views on such issues as abortion, gay rights and reconciliation with Indigenous people in Canada while insisting that his party is not beholden to right-wing extremists and hatemongers.

"The Conservatives are a moderate, pragmatic, mainstream party -- as old as Confederation -- that sits squarely in the centre of Canadian politics," O'Toole said.

...

It also comes on the heels of a Liberal Party fundraising letter sent to members last week that accused the Conservatives under O'Toole of "continuing a worrisome pattern of divisive politics and catering to the extreme right."
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Old 01-18-2021, 12:41 PM   #3997
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Well then he's delusional. The Conservatives sit to the right of centre. There is nothing wrong with that. The Liberals sit to the left of it. Don't pretend to be something you are not.
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Old 01-18-2021, 01:07 PM   #3998
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If the centre is the party who gets the median Canadian voter, then only the Liberals have a fair claim to be considered centrist.
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Old 01-18-2021, 01:23 PM   #3999
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No place for 'far right' in Conservative Party, Erin O'Toole says

https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/politi...says-1.5270396
That's very rich coming from the party whose slogan is "Take Canada Back", whose deputy leader was photographed wearing a MAGA hat, and who until recently (when events in DC showed them the danger of their rhetoric) had a page on their party's website accusing the Liberal government of plotting to "steal" the next election.

Your words ring hollow, Erin. If you're serious about positioning the CPC as a party for moderate/centrist Canadians, you can demonstrate this by walking the walk. A good first step would be removing your Trump-supporting deputy leader from her position.

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Old 01-18-2021, 02:29 PM   #4000
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It's literally that simple. I can't stand Trudeau. But why should I vote for someone whose only merit is that they aren't Trudeau? It's infuriating, it shouldn't be hard to beat that guy and they seem to want to put zero effort into it
It's an incredibly hard task when the political realm has turned into a hyperpolarized mess of intolerance vs tolerance at the core of any election.

I'm not exactly a fan of O'Toole and the conservatives, but I've made a point to listen to some of his interviews since he took over. He's gone above and beyond to elaborate on his vision for the party, which is one that steers itself away from the ideologies that have plagued the party in the past. This isn't going to happen overnight. Much of this on the public to accept what he's saying, and stop blindly endorsing the existing Liberal crew, which are clearly a complete circus as well.

If you need a reason not to vote for the Liberals again, you need to remember that casting another vote that way after all the corruption and missteps is essentially a hall pass for everything that has seemingly been swept under the rug since they took office. It doesn't mean giving a vote conservative either - a few hundred thousand votes to other parties will send a clear message as well.
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