Electric vehicle war, is gas soon to be toast?

[Wormius]

The cost of this infrastructure for electric cars in tourist areas should be weighed against adding passenger rail.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

If EV=affluence then these people already have garages and charging at home. They aren't going to bother to charge at a shopping mall, golf course or grocery run. Charging for them will be a non-issue in their home city. It's really destinations that will bear the brunt of the pressure, and unfortunately they are also the busiest "surgiest" and most expensive areas to service.

Which is why you pay $9.50 for a terrible hot dog. Yet tons of people do.

I imagine most people will install level 2 charging at their home at some point, but for some it may not be necessary. If you only have level 1 charging at home and at work it'll probably keep you near full. Maybe once a month you need to top-up so you tie it in to another errand.

I just think of a condo I stayed at in Canmore recently. Once we got there, we didn't need to drive much, but you'd want your vehicle recharged there. Servicing the hundred or so spots in the parking garage will be really expensive. If a large number of Calgary owners arrive Friday night, and want to plug in and charge to go skiing the next day, that's a big expensive problem to solve. So without in building charging, do you go line up at a charger the night you arrive, or the next morning on the way to the hill? No one wants to deal with that, so people will take their gas vehicle. These are the challenges that are going to annoy people, and I don't think they are as easy as hing a bunch of valets. I mean, sure, money can solve everything, but most normal people are not going to pay for a valet, they will take their gasser.

It's a good thing nobody is suggesting those hundred spots need to be serviced tomorrow.

2nd home owners will install charging. Weekenders will book places that offer charging. The market will correct itself.

Or maybe this prompts you to stay in Banff and take a free shuttle to the front door of the ski hill (giving your EV time to re-fill at level 1).

But sure, in the near-term, most two vehicle families will have one ICE for the foreseeable future. But, that 350km+ trip to Louise and back has suddenly started to cost $50+. So there's a ballpark target for on-hill charging to meet/beat; combined with the many aforementioned reasons it may benefit the hill (I'll add another: relationship mgmt with Parks Canada for further development), it's not that daunting an idea.


Lastly, the big Alberta ski hills are a major outlier in terms of being fairly remote/unserviced (and also colder). Most ski hills are massively developed real estate plays - typically with expensive parking, but lots of shuttle service. So yes, it might be a more unique challenge here, but our behaviour is also lagging/unique.

I know it seems appalling to think about a minor lifestyle change, but I'm thinking I may start parking in Banff and taking the free shuttle if COVID ever dies down more (though for me it's because I'm sick of driving; the bus from Calgary is also a great option but timing more limited). The gas savings pay for an extra après beer. If I boot up on the bus I probably end up on my first chair just as fast (despite the detour and delay). Of course it would be less appealing if I had a couple groms to deal with.

[Wormius]

No one is saying it has to be done tomorrow, but if the random-assed prediction of no gas cars by 2030, then when do you think it needs to be done?

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Wormius

No one is saying it has to be done tomorrow, but if the random-assed prediction of no gas cars by 2030, then when do you think it needs to be done?

December 31, 2029 at 11:59:59 PM?

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Wormius

No one is saying it has to be done tomorrow, but if the random-assed prediction of no gas cars by 2030, then when do you think it needs to be done?

No new sales of gas cars is very different from no gas cars.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

No new sales of gas cars is very different from no gas cars.

It was sort of comment on the bold claim from earlier that there’ll be no gas vehicles on the road in 2030, and that no one is being tasked to work on implementing solutions for an imminent surge of EVs on the roads.

This shouldn’t be a play it by ear kind of thing and wing it. Charging stations, grid capacity, they have to come from somewhere.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Wormius

It was sort of comment on the bold claim from earlier that there’ll be no gas vehicles on the road in 2030, and that no one is being tasked to work on implementing solutions for an imminent surge of EVs on the roads.

This shouldn’t be a play it by ear kind of thing and wing it. Charging stations, grid capacity, they have to come from somewhere.

Well then whoever said that is a moron.

I agree with everything you said.

[Azure]

I'm a big proponent of EVs as well, but it'll take years to get there.

Already we are seeing a massive battery shortage and that won't change for a few more years. Tesla is shipping 300k + per quarter, and what percentage of overall vehicle sales is that actually? Even if they grow 30% per quarter (which would be insane), thats still nothing compared to overall sales.

[dino7c]

So what is Musk doing going all crazy right winger and making fun of woke culture?

He realizes who buys electric cars and who buys truck testicles right?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by dino7c

So what is Musk doing going all crazy right winger and making fun of woke culture?

He realizes who buys electric cars and who buys truck testicles right?

I'm not Musk fan but I think he's hit the nail on the head in his critique of wokeness. It's simply gone way too far and needs to be dialed back to more sensible levels.

“Generally, I think we should be aiming for a positive society and it should be OK to be humorous. Wokeness basically wants to make comedy illegal, which is not cool,” Musk said. “At its heart, wokeness is divisive, exclusionary and hateful. It basically gives mean people a shield to be cruel, armored in false virtue."

[Fuzz]

At its heart, wokeness is divisive, exclusionary and hateful. It basically gives mean people a shield to be cruel, armored in false virtue.

That's kind of hilarious coming from someone who called someone "pedo guy" on Twitter. Allowing unfettered speech also provides a shield for mean people to be cruel. Musk is a bit of a "stream of consciousness" speaker, and doesn't necessarily think everything all the way through.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

That's kind of hilarious coming from someone who called someone "pedo guy" on Twitter. Allowing unfettered speech also provides a shield for mean people to be cruel. Musk is a bit of a "stream of consciousness" speaker, and doesn't necessarily think everything all the way through.

I don't follow. Allowing unfettered speech is exactly just that. It doesn't provide a shield to anyone. I assume you must have read this key part of his statement.

It basically gives mean people a shield to be cruel, armored in false virtue."

[Mazrim]

“At its heart, wokeness is divisive, exclusionary and hateful. It basically gives mean people a shield to be cruel, armored in false virtue."

Weird that this comes from Musk given the way he treats his employees. He's almost self-aware?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't follow. Allowing unfettered speech is exactly just that. It doesn't provide a shield to anyone. I assume you must have read this key part of his statement.

If you provide a platform for which anyone can attack anyone else, then you are in effect providing a shield to them. Elon sees free speech as only being good, but their is a flip side to it. Hell, he even recognizes it himself.

“Can you take this down? It is a security risk.”
That’s how Elon Musk opened a conversation with 19-year-old Jack Sweeney over Twitter DM last fall. He was referencing a Twitter account, called @ElonJet, which tracks the movements of his private jet around the world.

https://www.protocol.com/elon-musk-flight-tracker


Twitter provided a platform, the kid used it for free speech, and Elon found that harmful and tried to silence his free speech with money. I suspect if Elon bought Twitter, his idea of free speech would only extend as far as it doesn't harm him. You can bet that kid's account would be gone.

[TorqueDog]

For f--k's sake, can we please not turn this into the Elon thread? This is the electric vehicle thread, it's not even Tesla-specific. Here is the Tesla thread, go talk about this sh-tbag over there.

[dino7c]

We don't need to debate everything he says but he is the godfather of the modern electronic car and certainly relevant... personally recent events wouldn't be a deal breaker but would be a factory in me likely choosing another brand. As far as selling electric cars go I think he is barking up the wrong bush. People on the far right have an irrational hatred for electric cars.

[PeteMoss]

I think a lot of the concern around charging is just caused by people being used to fueling their car. They equate charging with the weekly stop at the gas station and think that will now take an hour vs 2 minutes. Most people would probably need to charge their car outside of their homes maybe what 5 times a year?

[Calgary14]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

I think a lot of the concern around charging is just caused by people being used to fueling their car. They equate charging with the weekly stop at the gas station and think that will now take an hour vs 2 minutes. Most people would probably need to charge their car outside of their homes maybe what 5 times a year?

It all depends on travel plans. I have family that come to visit monthly and they couldn't make the drive in an EV especially in the winter because of a lack of range on most EVs

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

I think a lot of the concern around charging is just caused by people being used to fueling their car. They equate charging with the weekly stop at the gas station and think that will now take an hour vs 2 minutes. Most people would probably need to charge their car outside of their homes maybe what 5 times a year?

There are two types of leisure travel broadly speaking. One is the day to day commuting within your city, I would guess that is the vast majority of most driving for people. As you point out the charging issues here are likely simpler to overcome, charging at home will suffice almost all the time. The second is cross county travel and this one is going to be tougher to sort out. People are not going to be receptive of a 1-2 hour stop to charge when they are used to a 10-15 minute gas stop, this does significantly add to travel time and that is a problem.

I think we will see more widespread EV acceptance and use with daily commuters sooner than for longer distance travel.

On a related note I wonder how receptive employers are going to be to employees charging at work for 'free' as the number of EV's grows.

[bossy22]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

I think a lot of the concern around charging is just caused by people being used to fueling their car. They equate charging with the weekly stop at the gas station and think that will now take an hour vs 2 minutes. Most people would probably need to charge their car outside of their homes maybe what 5 times a year?

In 6 years, we've charged outside the home 8 or 9 times. All in the winter because my wife took the car skiing. The stops are usually in Canmore, which works out because the chargers are by Alberta Wing Shack which my son loves. No matter what car we have, we stop there after skiing. With the EV it works out great because we plug in, walk over and order and wait for the wings and our sandwiches. Once ready, we unplug and hit the road. It's enough to ensure we get home without issue.

The only issue we've had, is the last time she went there, a bunch of trucks took over every charging spot. A bunch of hero's doing God's work.