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Old 06-19-2019, 03:43 PM   #41
Weitz
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Unless you want the jacked look don’t lift too much. Do more full body workouts.

All show no go is no way to live your life.
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Old 06-19-2019, 04:52 PM   #42
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Unless you want the jacked look don’t lift too much. Do more full body workouts.

All show no go is no way to live your life.
Depends on what kinds of lifts you are doing. Compound lifts like squats will help you in any physical activity. Obviously, if you go to extremes squatting, it will hurt your ability to run long distances, but a beginner is a long way from that. Especially one that's naturally thin to being with.
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Old 06-19-2019, 07:02 PM   #43
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Again, thank you all so much for all the responses and information. I'll post back here soon once things get rolling!
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Old 06-19-2019, 08:20 PM   #44
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Good for you man, I've been going to the gym every weekday morning before work for just over 6 months now and it's crazy what a difference a few months makes. Keep at it!

The big thing that keeps me motivated is to know what kinds of workouts I enjoy and avoid the ones I don't. Like I get bored just thinking about spending 30-60 minutes on a treadmill, so I do other stuff to keep my cardio up like hiking in the summers. You're not going to stick to something you don't enjoy so don't force yourself.

Also, try not to overdo it on machines. They are designed to target specific muscles as a support to your primary lifts. Compound exercises that utilize various muscle groups like squats, lifts, pull-ups, and presses will give you far more bang for your buck, and are much easier to measure progress on over time.

On that note, keep a log of your progress on those primary exercises, and every week try to improve upon your previous week. Whether that means adding 5 more pounds to a bench press, or just doing an extra squat or two per set, that motivation to keep improving is huge.

Last thing, try to mix up your workouts every now and then. This will keep your body guessing (which means less risk of experiencing a plateau), and makes it more interesting and less stale mentally. I always keep my primary exercises, but every 3-4 weeks I like to mix in some different support exercises using cable machines, dumbbells, and barbells. There's an endless library of resources out there to try! (Of course, always make sure you're using proper form to avoid an injury, which is one of many places a personal trainer can help)
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Old 06-19-2019, 11:08 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weitz View Post
Unless you want the jacked look don’t lift too much. Do more full body workouts.

All show no go is no way to live your life.
"I started lifting and accidently got ripped!"

-No one ever.

It's extremely difficult to "get jacked". You won't do it by accident.

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Depends on what kinds of lifts you are doing. Compound lifts like squats will help you in any physical activity. Obviously, if you go to extremes squatting, it will hurt your ability to run long distances, but a beginner is a long way from that. Especially one that's naturally thin to being with.
There's no evidence that strength training hampers running, in fact it's the opposite. Maybe if you're hauling around 30 extra pounds of muscle but that's about it. I'm very hesistant in these threads to tell people do this or don't do that. Fitness is far more about sustainability and enjoyment than what exactly you're doing.
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Old 06-20-2019, 08:36 AM   #46
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"I started lifting and accidently got ripped!"

-No one ever.

It's extremely difficult to "get jacked". You won't do it by accident.



There's no evidence that strength training hampers running, in fact it's the opposite. Maybe if you're hauling around 30 extra pounds of muscle but that's about it. I'm very hesistant in these threads to tell people do this or don't do that. Fitness is far more about sustainability and enjoyment than what exactly you're doing.
Lol, I remember talking to a friend who is a bit of a gym rat, and she would get so annoyed at girls who go "oh, I don't do weight training, I don't want to get lumpy". Yah, that's never going to happen because you have to be really dedicated and focused to get "lumpy", and doubly so for women. People think just lifting weights will all of a sudden get you all jacked. If only it were that easy.
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Old 06-20-2019, 08:53 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty View Post
"I started lifting and accidently got ripped!"

-No one ever.

It's extremely difficult to "get jacked". You won't do it by accident.



There's no evidence that strength training hampers running, in fact it's the opposite. Maybe if you're hauling around 30 extra pounds of muscle but that's about it. I'm very hesistant in these threads to tell people do this or don't do that. Fitness is far more about sustainability and enjoyment than what exactly you're doing.
Heh was more of a tongue in cheek comment about a bunch of people I know that lift 3-5 times a week but can barely do any other activities/sports well. Hence the all show no go.
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Old 06-20-2019, 09:26 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty View Post
"I started lifting and accidently got ripped!"

-No one ever.

It's extremely difficult to "get jacked". You won't do it by accident.



There's no evidence that strength training hampers running, in fact it's the opposite. Maybe if you're hauling around 30 extra pounds of muscle but that's about it. I'm very hesistant in these threads to tell people do this or don't do that. Fitness is far more about sustainability and enjoyment than what exactly you're doing.
I agree. However 30 lbs of pure muscle is a huge amount. Also unless you were both obese and weak to begin with, you'd see some fat gain with that. So you'd more like be putting on 40-50 lbs. This is going to change your body composition dramatically. Even 1/3 of that could affect your ability to run long distances, due to the extra weight alone.

That being said, to gain that type of muscle takes a lot of focus and work. It's not a case of having a squat day once a week, and then accidentally getting so huge you can't run long distances anymore.

My weight fluctuates between 155-170 lbs, depending on my routine and diet. When I'm smaller, my big lifts go down. When I'm bulked up, long distances become noticably harder. And it's not just extra fat that's causing that. Even when my bodyfat percentage is lower, if I have too much mass bodyweight and long distance running are harder. Even a 5 lbs difference is noticable.
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Old 06-20-2019, 09:35 AM   #49
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I agree. However 30 lbs of pure muscle is a huge amount. Also unless you were both obese and weak to begin with, you'd see some fat gain with that. So you'd more like be putting on 40-50 lbs. This is going to change your body composition dramatically. Even 1/3 of that could affect your ability to run long distances, due to the extra weight alone.

That being said, to gain that type of muscle takes a lot of focus and work. It's not a case of having a squat day once a week, and then accidentally getting so huge you can't run long distances anymore.

My weight fluctuates between 155-170 lbs, depending on my routine and diet. When I'm smaller, my big lifts go down. When I'm bulked up, long distances become noticably harder. And it's not just extra fat that's causing that. Even when my bodyfat percentage is lower, if I have too much mass bodyweight and long distance running are harder. Even a 5 lbs difference is noticable.
Why are you suggesting you'd have fat gain with muscle gain? (I feel like we've had this discussion before..).

Just gain muscle and lose fat.

Here is one study showing fat free mass not affecting but fat mass affecting race times in ages >35. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3525821/
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Old 06-20-2019, 09:44 AM   #50
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I dunno, I've packed on around 20lbs of muscle the last few years, and I've never been fitter. I'm testing everything from 400m runs to 5k runs pretty consistently, and I'm every bit as fast as I was when I was under 190lbs (I sit around 210 these days at just over 6').

I used to be big into running, and I've found that with a ton of weight training and HIIT my legs are stronger and my lung capacity is just as high as it was when I was a rake. With all the squats I do my legs barely get tired these days if I run a longer distance.

I know it's chique to hate on crossfit (which is pretty ridiculous) but it's changing a lot of perceptions of what big, heavy muscular athletes are capable of.

To each their own though. I have my opinions on what constitutes fitness, others will have their opinions. To me I don't care WHAT you do, as long as you do something and you enjoy doing it.

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Old 06-20-2019, 09:47 AM   #51
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Why are you suggesting you'd have fat gain with muscle gain? (I feel like we've had this discussion before..).

Just gain muscle and lose fat.

Here is one study showing fat free mass not affecting but fat mass affecting race times in ages >35. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3525821/

I think you guys are talking about two different types of people. The study above looks at subjects who are already marathoners and ultra marathoners. Their muscle mass is not what blankall is talking about. We've all seen gym bro's trying to run a few laps and it's pretty funny. Marathoners are not shot putters and vice versa.
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Old 06-20-2019, 09:57 AM   #52
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I think you guys are talking about two different types of people. The study above looks at subjects who are already marathoners and ultra marathoners. Their muscle mass is not what blankall is talking about. We've all seen gym bro's trying to run a few laps and it's pretty funny. Marathoners are not shot putters and vice versa.
I think we're talking about people who do both. I run a few races a year and run a ton and maintain my strength routine of ~8.5 hours per week. The pervasive belief is that strength training that much will negatively effect your running and I think that both blankall and I agree that as long as you don't gain fat then it will not.

I think he's alluding to bulking in his post. Ie people who want to gain muscle "overfeed", which would lead to gains in fat mass and reduce running performance. But there is no evidence that overfeeding increases gains in fat free mass other than water content in both sedentary and resistance trained individuals (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5786199/). I'm unaware of a study looking at raw strength (ie 1RMs) for overfeeding but as far as I know no evidence exists for it helping that either.

Edit: I lied. One of the studies in the review did look at strength differences and found no significant difference https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art.../#!po=0.510204
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Old 06-20-2019, 11:06 AM   #53
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Why are you suggesting you'd have fat gain with muscle gain? (I feel like we've had this discussion before..).

Just gain muscle and lose fat.

Here is one study showing fat free mass not affecting but fat mass affecting race times in ages >35. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3525821/
A high muscle yet ultra low bodyfat of not a state the human body wants to be in. Take a look at true natural bodybuilders,

I'm also referring to people who have been working out for a long time. The average out of shape person can easily gain both muscle and endurance. When you get to the point where you are maxing out your natural limit in either, there is a trade off.

No marathon runner has ever won a strength competition, or vice versa. The same principles apply to a lesser extent to the average person.
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Old 06-20-2019, 11:42 AM   #54
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I think we're talking about people who do both. I run a few races a year and run a ton and maintain my strength routine of ~8.5 hours per week. The pervasive belief is that strength training that much will negatively effect your running and I think that both blankall and I agree that as long as you don't gain fat then it will not.

I think he's alluding to bulking in his post. Ie people who want to gain muscle "overfeed", which would lead to gains in fat mass and reduce running performance. But there is no evidence that overfeeding increases gains in fat free mass other than water content in both sedentary and resistance trained individuals (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5786199/). I'm unaware of a study looking at raw strength (ie 1RMs) for overfeeding but as far as I know no evidence exists for it helping that either.

Edit: I lied. One of the studies in the review did look at strength differences and found no significant difference https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art.../#!po=0.510204
I don't agree. Any kind of mass gain, including muscle will affect your endurance. Once again I'm talking about people who have been training seriously, not your average couch potato.

Running long distances (10km+) regularly will also cause your body to release hormones that will affect your ability to gain muscle.

For me, in find that if my bodyweight gets above 160lbs, no matter how lean I am, my runtimes all increase. Even distances as low as 800 meters will increase by a few seconds.
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Old 06-20-2019, 01:25 PM   #55
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It doesn't matter if you agree, right now that's what the science says.

I can't imagine the health effects of frequent fat mass fluctuations and habitual over-eating are particularly good either.
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Old 06-20-2019, 01:42 PM   #56
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It doesn't matter if you agree, right now that's what the science says.

I can't imagine the health effects of frequent fat mass fluctuations and habitual over-eating are particularly good either.
The science doesn't say that. If you take a random group of coach potatoes and put them in an exercise program they can build both strength and endurance easily. I disagree with the absolute assertion that putting on muscle mass will not negatively affect your ability to run long distances.

If you want to seriously train for a long distance run, you can't carry significant weight. It's just simple physics.
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Old 06-20-2019, 01:44 PM   #57
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It doesn't matter if you agree, right now that's what the science says.

I can't imagine the health effects of frequent fat mass fluctuations and habitual over-eating are particularly good either.
Can you explain this science? The ncbi study you noted does not say what you think it says. It talks about naturally losing muscle as you age...over 50. And runners tend to keep more muscle than non runners and therefore run faster. That's a lot different from what you seem to be implying....more muscle equals faster running.
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Old 06-20-2019, 01:57 PM   #58
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Anyways this is all of topic. OP doesn't have to worry about maxing out strength or endurance at this point. I do agree that putting on muscle will not necessarily affect long endurance. In just saying it's not an absolute.
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Old 06-20-2019, 05:12 PM   #59
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OP better be jacked and breaking ultramarathon records soon.
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Old 06-20-2019, 08:46 PM   #60
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OP better be jacked and breaking ultramarathon records soon.
Lol. All it takes is listening to a bro like me drop science.
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