[Signing] Flames sign Jacob Markstrom. (6 yrs, $6mil AAV)

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

someone pointed out in another thread that the only way to actually win a cup is to get a Top3 pick. There's been once exception in the last 13 years, and that team had a Top4 pick.

So it depends on what you want as a team.

Pining for a tank when it isn't likely is wasted energy.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

someone pointed out in another thread that the only way to actually win a cup is to get a Top3 pick. There's been once exception in the last 13 years, and that team had a Top4 pick.

So it depends on what you want as a team.

Good thing we have Gudbransen then

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

And then who do you go with as a #1 goalie next season? Unless the suggestion is Vladar is an NHL starter (which I don't think he is)

It would be a mess.

I don't think Vladar is a starter. And for Wolf, I agree with your outline from the other day.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

…Markstrom’s play against the Oilers..

Gotcha. Makes more sense!

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Hasn't been the better goalie in either series, not a recipe for success in the post season.

Both him and Oettinger were good in round 1. He won one more game which is what mattered. Oettinger was just busier so he looked more impressive.

Expecting more from him this series is one thing. Trying to lump in the last series where he averaged what? a goal and a half? is another.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Even if the Flames wanted to trade Markstrom, I don't think they could because of his full NMC.

Flames aren't going to trade Markstrom. The guy was a Vezina finalist after all and well run teams don't make knee jerk reactions after a bad playoff series. At the conclusion of the season the priorities will shift to retaining Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Mangiapane, etc as the goaltending position is settled for the next season.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Hasn't been the better goalie in either series, not a recipe for success in the post season.

I have no idea why anyone would use Markstrom's play against Dallas as a negative. Oettinger played out of his mind, one of the better goalie performances I've seen in a long time, and Markstrom's stats were almost identical. Markstrom was fantastic.

If you want to call him out for his play in this series against the Oilers that makes some sense, but his play in the Dallas series was nothing but a massive positive, he was great.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Pining for a tank when it isn't likely is wasted energy.

I'm not pining for a tank, just pointing out a fact. If you are in constant re-tool mode, and you don't have one of the superstars, your ceiling is Round 1, maybe Round 2. The Flames are a perfect example of this.

Would I care about a tank? No. But I've got other things to do with my evenings while the tank is going on. I just won't bother watching the Flames, and that's fine with me.

I think some people would put themselves through the pain of actually sitting down on the couch to watch a bad Flames team. Life is too short for that.

[agulati]

What concerns me is that Markstrom did have load management issues in Vancouver as well. He tends to play through what nags him.

I really hope that isn’t the case, and it is more about getting into the right groove/mindset. If that is what it is, the last 40 minutes in Game 4 were quite promising. More of that, and we still have a decent chance.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

someone pointed out in another thread that the only way to actually win a cup is to get a Top3 pick. There's been once exception in the last 13 years, and that team had a Top4 pick.

So it depends on what you want as a team.

If we assume average length of a top 3 pick career is 15 seasons, there are 45 top 3 picks in the league. Even if we assume length of 10 years, there are still as many top 3 picks, as there are teams. On any given season there are only 3-5 teams in the whole league that do NOT have a player picked on top 3.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

I have no idea why anyone would use Markstrom's play against Dallas as a negative. Oettinger played out of his mind, one of the better goalie performances I've seen in a long time, and Markstrom's stats were almost identical. Markstrom was fantastic.

If you want to call him out for his play in this series against the Oilers that makes some sense, but his play in the Dallas series was nothing but a massive positive, he was great.

I get what you are saying, but the point of any competition is to perform better than your opponent, rather than to merely perform well. Markstrom did not outperform his counter part in Dallas series, it's legit to point it out.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Pointman

I get what you are saying, but the point of any competition is to perform better than your opponent, rather than to merely perform well. Markstrom did not outperform his counter part in Dallas series, it's legit to point it out.

The Flames had the third best team save percentage of any of the 16 teams in the first round.

Dallas had goaltending that people are putting in top five lists for series all time.

Markstrom wasn't a problem in the first round at all.

He was able to play great hockey to keep his team in it long enough for them to break through and win three of the last four games.

He was ....

.971
.952
.923
.929

in the last four games of the series, besting Oettinger twice.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Pointman

I get what you are saying, but the point of any competition is to perform better than your opponent, rather than to merely perform well. Markstrom did not outperform his counter part in Dallas series, it's legit to point it out.

Holy moly. The guy played fantastic, held the fort the first few minutes in Game 7 OT before the team got it's feet going. He played fantastic, the team won the series.

'Merely played well'? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Pointman

I get what you are saying, but the point of any competition is to perform better than your opponent, rather than to merely perform well. Markstrom did not outperform his counter part in Dallas series, it's legit to point it out.

But this is such a simplistic way of looking at it.
He was outstanding in that series.
He was the 2nd best goalie in the entire league in the first round.

The fact he was opposed by a guy having one of the best series in the history of the league isn't on him.

Can we not be a little more nuanced in how we look at these things?

[redforever]

The problem was in game 2. We were ahead and then Markstrom let in 3 bad goals, goal 3, 4, and 5, almost mirror images of one another.

Down too far, too deep in the net, puck goes over his left shoulder, all 3 times.

If we had decent goal tending that game, I highly doubt the Flames would be in the same situation.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Markstrom did not outperform his counter part in Dallas series, it's legit to point it out.

He got one more win. Like I said Oettinger was busier which increases his save percentage but Markstrom did what he needed to do. Dallas could have easily won game 7 in regulation or OT when they gave up chances but he stood tall.

[SuperMatt18]

Yeah based on the goaltending that Dallas was getting in the first round you would expect they would win that series in 5 or 6 games.

Markstrom (and the team around him) were good enough to overcome what was a legendary performance from Oettinger.

Even in round 2 Markstrom has been a part of the problem...but he isn't the only problem.

The .850 save percentage, and -8.3 GSAA are bad from Markstrom, but the Flames are also giving up way too much quality.

Flames are allowing 9.5 High Danger Shots against per 60 (2nd worst in the 2nd round behind only Florida) and Markstrom has a .710 high danger save percentage.

It's the combination of those two things killing the Flames. That has resulted in 11 High Danger Goals against in round two, The next closest team Florida have given up 7.

Flames are giving up too much high danger, Markstrom isn't making enough of the high danger saves, and that's the difference in the series right now.

Flames lead Low Danger Goals 2-1
Flames lead Medium Danger Goals 8-7
Flames are getting pummeled in High Danger Goals 11-5

33 High Danger Shots For, 5 High Danger Goals For, Oilers have a .849 High Danger Save Percentage. (Smith has an .841 the last two regular seasons...so this tracks)

38 High Danger Shots Against, 11 High Danger Goals Against, Flames have a .711 High Danger Save Percentage. (Markstrom has a .829 the last two regular seasons, so below average for him).

That's the difference. It's been a pretty even series overall, and really it should be 2-2. Flames deserved Game 1, Oiler deserved Game 3, probably should have split 2 and 4. Instead Oilers have won both of the toss ups because they've gotten more big saves when it's mattered.

Over the last two regular seasons as a Flame Markstrom has a .829 save percentage on high danger chances and we need him at that level. If he was saving high Danger chances at that same clip it would have meant 4 fewer Goals against in the series (7 instead of 11). And it would be 15-15 in overall goals for / against in the series (excluding empty net). It's the difference so far.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

I have no idea why anyone would use Markstrom's play against Dallas as a negative. Oettinger played out of his mind, one of the better goalie performances I've seen in a long time, and Markstrom's stats were almost identical. Markstrom was fantastic.

If you want to call him out for his play in this series against the Oilers that makes some sense, but his play in the Dallas series was nothing but a massive positive, he was great.

Still doesn't change what I said, he was pretty good, but two series in a row he isn't the better goalie. It's the most important position, so you need him to outplay the opponent.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by redforever

The problem was in game 2. We were ahead and then Markstrom let in 3 bad goals, goal 3, 4, and 5, almost mirror images of one another.

Down too far, too deep in the net, puck goes over his left shoulder, all 3 times.

If we had decent goal tending that game, I highly doubt the Flames would be in the same situation.

That was game one.

Game two had a shorthanded breakaway as the game winner.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Flames aren't going to trade Markstrom. The guy was a Vezina finalist after all and well run teams don't make knee jerk reactions after a bad playoff series. At the conclusion of the season the priorities will shift to retaining Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Mangiapane, etc as the goaltending position is settled for the next season.

No UFA goalie with prior NHL experience has ever won the cup in the history of the NHL. Thomas and Niemi were signings, but they had no prior NHL experience.

This is despite the fact, that at any given moment, at least a third of the starting goalies are UFA signings.

Really, by this logic, Calgary, Carolina, and Edmonton, can't win the cup.

Cup-winning teams don't sign UFA goalies in the first place. Cup-winning teams know how to draft and develop their own goaltenders. Most of these goalies are on the right side of 30 when they do win the cup.

Do I think they Flames should trade Markstrom? Not if they don't have a replacement in mind for next season.
But developing Wolf is extremely crucial. This cannot be understated.