[Signing] Flames sign Jacob Markstrom. (6 yrs, $6mil AAV)

[GreenLantern2814]

Goaltending really hasn’t been the issue.

Both guys give the team saves, and both guys have been consistently hung out to dry.

It’s why they fired the coach.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by CSharp

Still don't understand the need to get a $6mil goalie to try to make the team look good.

Because if you want to win you need good goaltending. When you get an opportunity to get a legit starter you take it. It also sounds like getting Markstrom may have played a part in why Sutter decided to take the job.

Has the team let the goalies down in the past? Sure. But the goalies have also let the team down. Whether it ends up being too late to make them or not I've never been this confident in the goaltending going into the playoffs since Kipper.

And also, if you're going to spend 6 million a season on a player then spending it on a legit starting goalie isn't a bad thing.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Glad you liked it.

You always try and find negative summaries by sorting through stats in bizarre ways.

I just did the same.

It's odd to look at it as a one team vs other team issue.
It's odd to summarize the Flames organization back to when Kiprusoff retired as there isn't any one left to draw a commonality.

You've been called a troll by many, trolls get mocked when they fail to make the point they're trying to make.

My conclusion is the opposite of trolling, giving credit where credit is due. It's not a Vancouver vs other team issue ... it's a since injury issue, or a breakdown in team defense issue.

So why not post that in the first place and save us the chaos?

Since June 25,2011 when The Flames sent Regehr, right-winger Ales Kotalik and their second-round draft pick in 2012 to the Sabres for defenceman Chris Butler and centre Paul Byron the Flames have changed their direction with having defense first defensemen.

Kipper hung on for 2 seasons and then whatever Flame goalie that was brought in was pretty much completely responsible for preventing goals scored on the team. The Flames team defense has create a goalie grave yard. Kipper would have looked average playing behind any team after Regehr was gone and the Flames went to a small, no contact, puck moving model of defense.

That was a philosophy or strategy change that changed the focus and left the goalie as the primary hero responsible for carrying the team defensively.

Here is the list of Flames goalies since Regher and the philosophy that he represented were dumped.

Player - GS - Sv% - GAA
David Rittich - 115 - 0.908 - 2.83
Karri Ramo - 106 - 0.911 - 2.63
Mike Smith - 95 - 0.909 - 2.68
Miikka Kiprusoff - 92 - 0.911 - 2.62
Jonas Hiller - 67 - 0.905 - 2.73
Brian Elliott - 45 - 0.91 - 2.55
Chad Johnson - 36 - 0.91 - 2.59
Joni Ortio - 34 - 0.901 - 2.66
Reto Berra - 27 - 0.897 - 2.95
Joey MacDonald - 26 - 0.898 - 2.88
Cam Talbot - 22 - 0.919 - 2.63
Jacob Markstrom - 17 - 0.907 - 2.88
Leland Irving - 12 - 0.902 - 3.25
Jon Gillies - 10 - 0.903 - 2.71
Henrik Karlsson - 7 - 0.9 - 3.17
Niklas Backstrom - 3 - 0.881 - 3.35
Daniel Taylor - 2 - 0.912 - 3
Eddie Lack - 2 - 0.813 - 5.29
Artyom Zagidulin - 0 - 0.818 - 4.25

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by CSharp

He's shown that he is a starter in net in the past until he got hurt later down the stretch. The more a goalie plays the more confidence he gets. It's not all his fault for a lot of the Flames losses in previous and current years either. This team is known for killing coaches and goalies! How many coaches and goalies have Tre gone through now?

I'm pretty sure the ship has sailed on Rittich's career as a starting goaltender. He may go to another team without an established starter and do the 1A/1B thing but he's not a guy that will ever be a true number one goaltender. It was pretty clear Ward had no faith in him playing Markstrom until he got hurt and while it's easy to second guess most of Ward's this is one area where I kind of understand given how Rittich's play last season got worse and worse.

[Manhattanboy]

I do recall those playoff years late in Kippur's career when the Flames would give up a ton of shots.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by CSharp

He's shown that he is a starter in net in the past until he got hurt later down the stretch. The more a goalie plays the more confidence he gets. It's not all his fault for a lot of the Flames losses in previous and current years either. This team is known for killing coaches and goalies! How many coaches and goalies have Tre gone through now?

Rittich's problems have been his inconsistency, and this season is no exception. He was fantastic in the Toronto games, but then mostly below average in his last four since then. Yes, some of this is on the team, but not all of it.

I am confident that both goalies will look much better under Sutter, but Rittich no longer seems like a viable, long-term option as a starter at this level.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

The book on Markstrom is that when he starts getting tired you see more crazy nonsense... like that game against the Canucks when he charged out at two guys back to back. He's also a guy who just has off nights sometimes, or nights where his head isn't in it - I remember when they signed him someone making a comment about where he ranks all time in terms of the proportion of games where he gives up a goal on the first shot of the game.

I think at the end of the season his stats will look better than they do now, but the stats are really tough to parse for a goalie like Markstrom, because his sometimes wild swings in play get lost in averages. I would expect by season's end for his GSAA and save percentage to rank higher than his QS%, for example.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Since June 25,2011 when The Flames sent Regehr, right-winger Ales Kotalik and their second-round draft pick in 2012 to the Sabres for defenceman Chris Butler and centre Paul Byron the Flames have changed their direction with having defense first defensemen.

In 2010–11 Kiprusoff posted a 0.906 SP. In the season after the Regehr trade he was a top-ten starter with a 0.921 SP.

This "Regehr defense philosophy" of yours does not compute.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I'm pretty sure the ship has sailed on Rittich's career as a starting goaltender. He may go to another team without an established starter and do the 1A/1B thing but he's not a guy that will ever be a true number one goaltender. It was pretty clear Ward had no faith in him playing Markstrom until he got hurt and while it's easy to second guess most of Ward's this is one area where I kind of understand given how Rittich's play last season got worse and worse.

Oh good lord

The thing everyone ignores time and time again are the documented injuries and ...

Lol at the idea that a guy who has only ever been deployed in a 1A / 1B capacity ‘lost the faith’ of the coach after the coach’s boss just freshly made a big splashy investment in a number one, with dollars and term

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Oh good lord

The thing everyone ignores time and time again are the documented injuries...

"Injuries" do not explain Rittich's poor performance in the bubble, and his inconsistency over the past several games. He is 28-years-old and in his third full NHL season, and it does not look like he is taking steps forward. I guess he could still blossom into a starter at this level, but sure does not appear likely at this point.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Oh good lord

The thing everyone ignores time and time again are the documented injuries and ...

Lol at the idea that a guy who has only ever been deployed in a 1A / 1B capacity ‘lost the faith’ of the coach after the coach’s boss just freshly made a big splashy investment in a number one, with dollars and term

I realize you are his biggest fan and will go to no end to make excuses for him but every goaltender deals with injuries. Rittich isn't special there. The fact the team signed Markstrom to his deal pretty well confirms they don't view Rittich as a starter and Ward was making decisions not to make the GM happy and more to preserve his job playing Markstrom as much as possible. The guy just isn't consistent enough.

[Bingo]

I think Rittich has the skills, but not sure on the durability or mental strength to carry the #1 load.

[Savvy27]

I remain excited about Markstrom, but if you only play 17 games and have a save percentage under .900 in 8 of them including being pulled twice, then it's fair criticism to say that he's not delivering as hoped so far.

Again, I like the signing and am optimistic that he will come through. Yet, being honest, he demanded a long term deal with a no move clause, effectively guaranteeing himself the starting job, so the team needs him to be better. He's arguably their biggest star and other teams in this division are getting high end seasons from their stars.

[djsFlames]

I have faith.

Tbh, the team looked resigned while he was standing on his head for a while there. Eventually that probably gets to you. If the team is rejuvenated going forward, I'm sure he will be too.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I realize you are his biggest fan and will go to no end to make excuses for him but every goaltender deals with injuries. Rittich isn't special there. The fact the team signed Markstrom to his deal pretty well confirms they don't view Rittich as a starter and Ward was making decisions not to make the GM happy and more to preserve his job playing Markstrom as much as possible. The guy just isn't consistent enough.

Seriously this ‘oh, you’re a fan of this guy’ stuff belongs in the playground

Well, a GM getting a clear cut #1 doesn’t mean anything is different in his trust in the former 1B, now 2.

This whole losing faith is nonsense. He just added a goalie that he expects to be the number 1

I don’t see the need to make it anything it isn’t

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

The book on Markstrom is that when he starts getting tired you see more crazy nonsense... like that game against the Canucks when he charged out at two guys back to back. He's also a guy who just has off nights sometimes, or nights where his head isn't in it - I remember when they signed him someone making a comment about where he ranks all time in terms of the proportion of games where he gives up a goal on the first shot of the game.

I think at the end of the season his stats will look better than they do now, but the stats are really tough to parse for a goalie like Markstrom, because his sometimes wild swings in play get lost in averages. I would expect by season's end for his GSAA and save percentage to rank higher than his QS%, for example.

He's also been playing hurt.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by Inferno

Because if you want to win you need good goaltending. When you get an opportunity to get a legit starter you take it. It also sounds like getting Markstrom may have played a part in why Sutter decided to take the job.

Has the team let the goalies down in the past? Sure. But the goalies have also let the team down. Whether it ends up being too late to make them or not I've never been this confident in the goaltending going into the playoffs since Kipper.

And also, if you're going to spend 6 million a season on a player then spending it on a legit starting goalie isn't a bad thing.

Everyone's counting on one/two guys to win it for them on a team of 20 something players. We seen a team built where Iggy and/or Kipper carried the whole team through a lot of regular season. Remember, this is a team sport the Flames have shown in quite a few games that one guy, especially in the playoffs, just won't win you a series. Yeah, the goalie might get fluky and may steal a few games, but if you're counting on the goalie doing that, you might as well not put out the 5 guys in front of the goalie and just have the other team do a shooting gallery. I don't buy have an elite goalie. Chicago has gone through their championship days, first with Neimi then with Crawford. Were they elite goalies - I'd say no, but they're average NHL calibre goalies. These goalies did their jobs and so did the Hawk's defense and especially the forwards. If the Flames don't keep running around in their own zones continuously and give so many odd man rushes, maybe they don't need to keep looking for "better" goalies every couple of years.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

I do recall those playoff years late in Kippur's career when the Flames would give up a ton of shots.

Kipper will always be the Flames goalie god, no doubt about that. He also masked the deficiencies the Flames had had. With the current teams from the rebuild to now, the Flames can't mask that with any goalie, not even Markstrom. Even with an elite goalie, one elite forward, and a few bruising d-men, the Flames can't get past the first round cuz the teams counted mostly on two to 3 players to do it all again and again. Can't do that!

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

"Injuries" do not explain Rittich's poor performance in the bubble, and his inconsistency over the past several games. He is 28-years-old and in his third full NHL season, and it does not look like he is taking steps forward. I guess he could still blossom into a starter at this level, but sure does not appear likely at this point.

LOL, you can't blame him for poor performance in the playoff bubble last year. The whole frickin team stunk! Poor guy was left out there to dry. Can you blame Talbot for stinking up the last couple of games as well? I think Rittich is just fine when he's not injured. He might let in a few weak goals at the beginning of the games but he gets stronger as he plays more. Also, a lot of the goals at the beginning of every game seems to be deflected off of his own d-men. So, if the Flames want the goalies to do their jobs at their best, get the eff out of the way instead of trying to be a second or third goalie on the ice.

However, having said all I've said, this is the first year of Treliving where I think he finally have the goalie tandem right.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

"Injuries" do not explain Rittich's poor performance in the bubble, and his inconsistency over the past several games. He is 28-years-old and in his third full NHL season, and it does not look like he is taking steps forward. I guess he could still blossom into a starter at this level, but sure does not appear likely at this point.

Not playing a game in months before getting a short camp and then thrown into the fire in an elimination playoff game explain his play in the bubble.

126 GP 62W 37L 19 OTL 2.83 .908
159 GP 60W 63L 23 OTL 2.85 .906

First line is David Rittich, the second is Karri Ramo.

Rittich is a solid goalie. He’s not a 40+ game starter.

Had Sutter ever acquired a backup as good as Rittich, Kiprusoff wouldn’t have played 70 games SEVEN YEARS IN A GODDAMN ROW.