New Horizons Mall open... and empty

[Locke]

Why? Just stop.

[troutman]

Paving Paradise.

[Fuzz]

I always get a kick out of those idealistic artist renderings with people frolicking about, nary a car in sight. The reality is everyone will drive there becuase it is in the middle of nowhere, and they need parking lots all over the place.

[nik-]

The City better be sending the county a bill.

Offering sweet tax structures to get huge footprint businesses in there and letting us provide all the customers and infrastructure pains is bull####.

[TheScorpion]

I can't believe that people still go to malls for leisure. They're some of the most stressful places I can imagine.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by nik-

The City better be sending the county a bill.

Offering sweet tax structures to get huge footprint businesses in there and letting us provide all the customers and infrastructure pains is bull####.

Is this any different then the city of Calgary collecting that sweet sweet corporate tax revenue from all the people who commute in from airdrie each day for work?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by GGG

Is this any different then the city of Calgary collecting that sweet sweet corporate tax revenue from all the people who commute in from airdrome each day for work?

Are you serious? Where do they commute to and using what?

Yeah, it's different.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by GGG

Is this any different then the city of Calgary collecting that sweet sweet corporate tax revenue from all the people who commute in from airdrie each day for work?

I must be misunderstanding you.

The City of Calgary is collecting Federal Corporate Tax Revenue from residents of Airdrie?

[GGG]

Commercial property tax makes up about 55% of the city’s tax revenue stream The remaining 45% is funded by residential.

So if an Airdrie person commutes on a provincial highway up to memorial drive where they turn off into downtown. A Calgary business is paying property tax to employ this person.

So for the cost of the extra road congestion between downtown and Deerfoot the city of Calgary realizes that benefit without having to provide services to that individual. No police, No fire, No transit, No rec facilities, no local road maintenance

I used to believe in the parasite concept but no longer do after talking to some of the planners in Okotoks whose biggest challenges are developing a business property tax base when so many people leave the city every day. I can’t find a solid link to the data but homeowners in these areas pay a greater portion (not necessarily a greater absolute number) of the property taxes then in Calgary.

[nik-]

So a Calgary based business is paying the property tax to Calgary for their Calgary based business.

What does the person being based in Airdrie, who is not paying the property tax, have to do with this at all. Your example is totally irrelevant.

[dubc80]

I always chuckle at the artist renderings. They need to make them more realistic.

Have them depict Alberta in winter.

Add in melted snow puddles, salt/grime covered trucks and cars, people with toques/mitts on with frost breath.

[GGG]

One way to compare this is to look at straight Milrate. So if a person buys the same value of house in Airdrie as they do in Calgary who pays more in taxes.

The Airdrie residential milrate is .0042 the city of Calgary mil-rate is .0039.

Now you might argue that houses are cheaper in Airdrie and therefore the milrate needs to be higher to support the same services. However that just shows how much Calgary benefits from them being separate. If those people lived in a suburb of Calgary instead of Airdrie taxes would have to be increased to provide the same revenue per capita.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by GGG

Commercial property tax makes up about 55% of the city’s tax revenue stream The remaining 45% is funded by residential.

So if an Airdrie person commutes on a provincial highway up to memorial drive where they turn off into downtown. A Calgary business is paying property tax to employ this person.

So for the cost of the extra road congestion between downtown and Deerfoot the city of Calgary realizes that benefit without having to provide services to that individual. No police, No fire, No transit, No rec facilities, no local road maintenance

I used to believe in the parasite concept but no longer do after talking to some of the planners in Okotoks whose biggest challenges are developing a business property tax base when so many people leave the city every day. I can’t find a solid link to the data but homeowners in these areas pay a greater portion (not necessarily a greater absolute number) of the property taxes then in Calgary.

I'm confused by this. The business is paying the taxes, which means they are paying for the services. Does a business not need police, fire, transit, and roads? The employee is also using those services if they get in an accident, and they also use roads that aren't Deerfoot. It also puts a greater stress on the most congested roads that are unable to be expanded becuase the city can't provide transit for those users which is much more efficient.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by nik-

So a Calgary based business is paying the property tax to Calgary for their Calgary based business.

What does the person being based in Airdrie, who is not paying the property tax, have to do with this at all. Your example is totally irrelevant.

That business needs an employee.

That employee can live on the edge of Calgary or Airdrie. (I assuming this person would be a new house on edge city. Feel free to challenge this assumption if you want to)

If the person chooses Calgary, Calgary gets the tax revenue and burdens of this person. If the person choose Airdrie Airdrie gets the revue and burdens.

There is no change to the road demands if this person lives in Airdrie or sky view ranch.

Since the median price in sky view ranch is lower than the median in Calgary and the property tax from the business remains in Calgary whether or not the person lives in Calgary the city is better off with them in Airdrie.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by GGG

One way to compare this is to look at straight Milrate. So if a person buys the same value of house in Airdrie as they do in Calgary who pays more in taxes.

The Airdrie residential milrate is .0042 the city of Calgary mil-rate is .0039.

Now you might argue that houses are cheaper in Airdrie and therefore the milrate needs to be higher to support the same services. However that just shows how much Calgary benefits from them being separate. If those people lived in a suburb of Calgary instead of Airdrie taxes would have to be increased to provide the same revenue per capita.

Have you looked at the numbers? A really crude way would be to figure out the business tax payed and divide by the number employed to see how much each employee "contributes". I suspect it is going to be really low.

[Wormius]

Why don't they take all of that money and invest it into making Eau Claire Market worth going to. Upgrade the theater; get some good pubs and restaurants in there; expand that indoor kids' playground.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Have you looked at the numbers? A really crude way would be to figure out the business tax payed and divide by the number employed to see how much each employee "contributes". I suspect it is going to be really low.

Interesting idea

Is the number of residences more or less than the number of employed people in Calgary? Basically two income households lower the ratio and retired people raise it.

I suspect it ends up pretty close.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Why don't they take all of that money and invest it into making Eau Claire Market worth going to. Upgrade the theater; get some good pubs and restaurants in there; expand that indoor kids' playground.

No free parking, (Free parking should be made illegal)

Too valuable of real estate so taxes are too high relative to potential revenue.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by GGG

No free parking, (Free parking should be made illegal)

Too valuable of real estate so taxes are too high relative to potential revenue.

Its also terribly inaccessible.

And lets face it people aren't taking the train or bus to a mall downtown on the weekends when they can drive to Market/Chinook/Cross iron.

[Calgary14]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Its also terribly inaccessible.

And lets face it people aren't taking the train or bus to a mall downtown on the weekends when they can drive to Market/Chinook/Cross iron.

That's essentially the problem with Eau Claire. It's centrally located but Calgary is such a suburb-focused city not many people come downtown on evenings/weekends. And as you said - why go to a subpar facility in Eau Claire when Market Mall or Chinook are much more accessible with more shopping