Clarke MacArthur suffers concussion in Training Camp scrimmage hit by Sieloff

[EverfresH15]

Originally Posted by Karl

No. It was a head shot 100% and not a clean hit at all.

I'm not going to say that Sieloff did that intentionally because 1) I'm not a mind reader and have no idea what Sieloff's thinking there, and 2) It wouldn't make sense that he'd do THAT intentionally.

That said, the fact that you and a good number of others on this forum apparently think this is a good 'hockey hit' or 'run of the mill' hit is incredible. You (and others) have gotta be kidding me. Unbelievable.

Watch the video again. The guy leaves his feet and drives his shoulder directly into MacArthur's head.

That is BOTH not clean AND not acceptable.

Maybe stick to playing barbies if you think that's a dirty hit. Uncalled for yes, dirty no. #isthatyouclarke

[dammage79]

Seiloff is stuck between a rock and hard place on this one. One hand he has to go out there and make an impact to earn a spot and get noticed. On the other, you simply should not destroy your team mates while doing so.

If I were the Sens management though, I'd have taken notice of that, the Sens need to replace Neil and his Pri**ish play eventually and Seiloff has shown he's a mass turd disturber.

[hockey.modern]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Seiloff is stuck between a rock and hard place on this one. One hand he has to go out there and make an impact to earn a spot and get noticed. On the other, you simply should not destroy your team mates while doing so.

If I were the Sens management though, I'd have taken notice of that, the Sens need to replace Neil and his Pri**ish play eventually and Seiloff has shown he's a mass turd disturber.

The Sens management actually defended Neil, Ryan etc.

Dorion applauds Sens for defending MacArthur
http://www.tsn.ca/video/dorion-appla...carthur~959025

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by Karl

Yeah? Well you and combustiblefuel (and anyone else who doesn't get it) are clearly wrong, and I mean dead wrong. Sieloff does leave his feet just before hitting MacArthur AND puts his shoulder directly into MacArthur's head. NOT a clean hit regardless of intent. A headshot through and through.

Yeah? You are clearly wrong, and I mean dead wrong. Sieloff does leave his feet after hitting MacArthur AND puts his shoulder directly into MacArthur's shoulder. ABSOLUTELY clean hit regardless of the outcome. A hockey hit through and through.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Yeah? You are clearly wrong, and I mean dead wrong. Sieloff does leave his feet after hitting MacArthur AND puts his shoulder directly into MacArthur's shoulder. ABSOLUTELY clean hit regardless of the outcome. A hockey hit through and through.

He probably tries to hit his shoulder but he doesn't get that at all. He gets way more head instead. Head primary and principal point of contact, shoulder secondary.

[Itse]

I agree with Karl that it looks like Sieloff leaves his feet and it even somewhat looks like he deliberately aims high. (He comes in pretty low.) I would call it a dirty hit if I had to make a call. It did take freeze framing to see it though, and the video is pretty crappy, so I'm not going to get on anyone's case for seeing it differently.

I will however say that there's no way you can say that it CLEARLY was NOT a dirty hit based on that crappy video. It's just tough to say either way based on that video. But freeze framing it, I'm very much inclined to say that it was at the very least borderline dirty.

However, not everyone needs to rely on crappy video to make that judgment. There were players right there when it happened, and they reacted in a way that's not normal for practice games, or even characteristic to some of them. That strongly suggests to me that it was not a clear hit, or even borderline. The reactions from Ottawa player suggest to me that it was a clearly dirty hit.

I'd also like to quote this from the Chiasson thread, as I think it was very well put.

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Everyone in the NHL knows that Sieloff can hit; we've all known that for 5 years. That isn't the part of his game he should be showcasing in training camp, and certainly not on any veteran player who's role is already cemented on the NHL roster, injury history or not.

He should have been focused on showing the coaching staff he's not a 1-trick pony, and that he can actually think the game at the NHL level. That's what they wanted to see, and he just failed.

Couldn't agree more. Whether the hit was accidental or not, it was in any case a stupid play. A very important part of being a succesful physical player is self-control and smarts. Hitting as hard as you can anytime you can leads to a lot of unnecessary penalties, and penalties often lose games.

[calgaryblood]

Just re watched it and paused at point of contact. Definitely shoulder to shoulder that rides up to the head and the boards making contact with the head also. That's a clean hit but it's a dangerous hit as well. I don't know what else he could do.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Itse

However, not everyone needs to rely on crappy video to make that judgment. There were players right there when it happened, and they reacted in a way that's not normal for practice games, or even characteristic to some of them. That strongly suggests to me that it was not a clear hit, or even borderline. The reactions from Ottawa player suggest to me that it was a clearly dirty hit.

You actually believe the players reaction matters? We see players react to clean hits all the time. How many times have we seen a player get hit cleanly and then the hittee have to fight someone right after?

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by hockey.modern

The Sens management actually defended Neil, Ryan etc.

Dorion applauds Sens for defending MacArthur
http://www.tsn.ca/video/dorion-appla...carthur~959025

To me, thats Dorion deflecting any criticism before it gets to him and his management. Why is MacArthur out there if he can't take a hit? Like I've said before the opposition will hit him harder and dirtier. If he can't take a hit then he shouldn't be cleared. This is on Sens management.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

To me, thats Dorion deflecting any criticism before it gets to him and his management. Why is MacArthur out there if he can't take a hit? Like I've said before the opposition will hit him harder and dirtier. If he can't take a hit then he shouldn't be cleared. This is on Sens management.

With your comments, you've criticized MacArthur, Sens' management, Sens' doctors, and MacArthur's team-mates.

Maybe, instead of all of them being wrong or off-sides, maybe your opinion of it being a clean hockey play is offside?

[dustygoon]

So tired of dissecting hits that happen in an instant. If your first impression is obviously a dirty hit then that's probably right.

[darthma]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

So tired of dissecting hits that happen in an instant. If your first impression is obviously a dirty hit then that's probably right.

The problem with that approach is that the impression is usually based on the outcome of the hit. In this case, MacArthur collapsed, so judging from that it's a dirty hit. If that was a different player, would they collapse too?

I'm not defending the hit - I am in the camp that thinks it was stupid. But, as others also point out, that's Sieloff's game. He's a cusp NHLer at best. Too bad. At one point I had very high hopes for him.

Also - a slowmo gif - I still can't tell if he leaves his feet first. I think he doesn't. But it sure looks like he misses the shoulder.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

So tired of dissecting hits that happen in an instant. If your first impression is obviously a dirty hit then that's probably right.

So guilty before proven innocent?

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by darthma

The problem with that approach is that the impression is usually based on the outcome of the hit. In this case, MacArthur collapsed, so judging from that it's a dirty hit. If that was a different player, would they collapse too?

I'm not defending the hit - I am in the camp that thinks it was stupid. But, as others also point out, that's Sieloff's game. He's a cusp NHLer at best. Too bad. At one point I had very high hopes for him.

Also - a slowmo gif - I still can't tell if he leaves his feet first. I think he doesn't. But it sure looks like he misses the shoulder.

Pretty easy to see one foot leaves the ice and the other is completely planted which would suggest the impact jarred him.

I still think he got shoulder first and it rode up on the hit as MacArthur was bent over in a vulnerable postion. Lools like to me Seiloff caught him not aware of his surrondings and just leveled him .

[Strange Brew]

Hrudey's comments are rather damning though. I guess its trendy to say all the Senators are losers andcreampuffs but the fact that so many veterans were seriously pissed off about it seems to matter a little bit.

You don't earn everything you get in life but you do earn your reputation. Based on Hrudey's comments, sounds like Seiloff may have one that other players don't care for.

The hit looks fine on my computer screen. Not sure thats the complete picture.

[FireGilbert]

Pretty stupid by Seiloff. I understand needing to make an impression as a tough shut down defenceman but pick your spots. Go after another rookie, not a popular veteran with concussion issues.

Very happy the Flames were able to get a serviceable NHL winger for a fringe Dman.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

Pretty easy to see one foot leaves the ice and the other is completely planted which would suggest the impact jarred him.

I still think he got shoulder first and it rode up on the hit as MacArthur was bent over in a vulnerable postion. Lools like to me Seiloff caught him not aware of his surrondings and just leveled him .

Edit: I take that back. Sieloff has both feet planted . The feet you see leaving the ice is Clarke MacArthurs'.

[Magnum PEI]

I think the left foot comes up and it looks like he launched. Pretty much a cheapshot even if it does follow the letter of the law.
This would've been a great hit in a preseason game, not so much in a training camp scrimmage.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

You actually believe the players reaction matters? We see players react to clean hits all the time. How many times have we seen a player get hit cleanly and then the hittee have to fight someone right after?

It's not normal in training camp, and not from those guys.

If there was good video, I wouldn't give it weight. But there is no good video, so I think it's worth considering the "circumstancial evidence".

[GreenLantern2814]

With all this talk of the foot leaving the ice, it's worth mentioning the puck passes out of MacArthur's reach before the hit. Seiloff is below the hash marks, and completely trapped. There is surely about to be a 2-on-1 the other way, or at the very least a forward put in a horrible position.

Not only was it a questionable decision from a professional standpoint, it's the absolute worst hockey decision he could have made. Patrick Seiloff has 17 professional points over two partial AHL seasons. He doesn't have an offensive game.

So why is he that far out of position when Bobby Ryan is on the ice?

Answer: because he's a stupid, ####ty player. That Feaster and Weisbrod publicly stated they would have picked him if Jankowski was gone is an embarrassment.