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Old 10-17-2020, 02:38 PM   #3461
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I didn't see anything from Ward to suggest he is a one-system kind of guy.

Dump and chase is used by every team strikes me more as a situational strategy than a broad one.
True. I was just responding to the assertion you canít win with dump and chase. TB does it a lot. They just do it very well.

FWIW I donít think Ward even coaches a dump and chase system either.
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Old 10-17-2020, 02:46 PM   #3462
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Fans overuse the dump and chase argument, I think - every team does it. The question is, how much do they rely on it?

I think a more useful discussion is about how a team transitions, and moves from zone to zone.

I believe the Flames are most effective when they are utilizing a high-tempo transitional game. And they are least effective when they are moving zone to zone. Gulutzan had them moving as a 5 man unit from zone to zone, which is fine if you have a physical team that is good on the boards.

The Flames do not. They are best in an open-ice, up tempo game.

I do not yet know how Ward is going to have them play. there was too much zone to zone hockey for my liking this past year, but he took over mid-season, so I don't think we should hang that on him.
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Old 10-17-2020, 03:04 PM   #3463
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Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction View Post
I didn't see anything from Ward to suggest he is a one-system kind of guy.

Dump and chase is used by every team strikes me more as a situational strategy than a broad one.
100% right on, IMO. Situational decision making.

It is simply taking the time and space that is available by reading and reacting to what space is available. Risk and reward.

Situational awareness.

This has NOTHING to do with system. NO TEAM wants to dump it in...BUT sometimes that is where the space is.
Everything to do with making good team and individual tactical decisions, NOT system.

On odd man rushes , often the puck gets kickEd outside to wide speed, mid lane drive, weak side flanker through the outside faceoff spot for rebound with a 4th man high.... and/ or “a teammate takes your ice; you take theirs” (crisscross).

Sometimes the space is behind the defenders, on even man rushes...3 v3 4v 4..Chip it or place it in an area where you can recover the puck, avoiding a blue line turnover. Risk and reward.
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Old 10-17-2020, 03:53 PM   #3464
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Originally Posted by Enoch Root View Post
Fans overuse the dump and chase argument, I think - every team does it. The question is, how much do they rely on it?

I think a more useful discussion is about how a team transitions, and moves from zone to zone.

I believe the Flames are most effective when they are utilizing a high-tempo transitional game. And they are least effective when they are moving zone to zone. Gulutzan had them moving as a 5 man unit from zone to zone, which is fine if you have a physical team that is good on the boards.


The Flames do not. They are best in an open-ice, up tempo game.

I do not yet know how Ward is going to have them play. there was too much zone to zone hockey for my liking this past year, but he took over mid-season, so I don't think we should hang that on him.
And I'm not sure why with Peters/Ward that the team midseason last year transition from one being a high-tempo that scored off the rush (which is how lots of teams score these days I feel), to a slower paced east-west transition team that has difficulty entering the zone. Especially when it comes to the PP.

North-south hockey I feel is the best, and most straightforward way to generate offense since you'll be having the defense play on the heel of their skates, or chasing, rather than getting the defense to set-up and contain the breakout. The team should be much more a quick strike team that as soon as they get puck, try to get an odd-man rush, or possibly a breakaway each and every time.

Obviously much more easier said than done, and requires to be much more aggressive defensively, and probably trust in your goaltender also incase of a breakdown, but with the higher risk, it could lead to higher reward. Johnny, and the rest of the offense is a lot more effective when they're able to generate solid chances off the rush, rather than trying to cycle a scoring opportunity.
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Old 10-17-2020, 04:13 PM   #3465
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And I'm not sure why with Peters/Ward that the team midseason last year transition from one being a high-tempo that scored off the rush (which is how lots of teams score these days I feel), to a slower paced east-west transition team that has difficulty entering the zone. Especially when it comes to the PP.

North-south hockey I feel is the best, and most straightforward way to generate offense since you'll be having the defense play on the heel of their skates, or chasing, rather than getting the defense to set-up and contain the breakout. The team should be much more a quick strike team that as soon as they get puck, try to get an odd-man rush, or possibly a breakaway each and every time.

Obviously much more easier said than done, and requires to be much more aggressive defensively, and probably trust in your goaltender also incase of a breakdown, but with the higher risk, it could lead to higher reward. Johnny, and the rest of the offense is a lot more effective when they're able to generate solid chances off the rush, rather than trying to cycle a scoring opportunity.
I generally agree with this. I donít think Vegas is an unusually fast team, but they go up ice quickly after gaining possession, and try to give the D no time to set. I think Calgary can do this.
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Old 10-17-2020, 05:12 PM   #3466
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The distribution of ice-time needs for this team mess up this entire idea; it might work only if the team started 100% in the offensive zone. Backlund needs to be on the ice more than any other forward because of how important he is in the defensive zone. Because of this, he can't be saddled with a guy like Lucic on his wing all the time, and Bennett is simply not capable of replacing what Backlund can do.

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Fair; my thought was that you would be even more likely to have Backlund available for d-zone face offs.


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Old 10-17-2020, 07:13 PM   #3467
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The concept of trading iginla was to get some reasonable return for the asset.
Which didnít happen
Nothing to do with hating players
Yes but all players are assets. The comment about discussing Iginlaís shortcomings is accurate IMO. I think itís rather fair to say some fans fall in love with marginal players with lower expectations and are quick to point out the shortcomings of the better players.
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Old 10-17-2020, 07:24 PM   #3468
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Yes but all players are assets. The comment about discussing Iginlaís shortcomings is accurate IMO. I think itís rather fair to say some fans fall in love with marginal players with lower expectations and are quick to point out the shortcomings of the better players.
Expectations and accountability are correlated to the salary amount ?

You bet!
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Old 10-17-2020, 07:33 PM   #3469
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Expectations and accountability are correlated to the salary amount ?

You bet!
I know it is semantics but I don't care about the salary. I care about the cap hit in relation to the team.
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Old 10-17-2020, 09:43 PM   #3470
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Winnipeg is loaded at wing, they'd have no interest in swapping Laine for Gaudreau. They're after a D, Hanifin would be a more likely target but I think they've got their eyes set on bigger targets, I.e. Ekblad.
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Old 10-18-2020, 12:39 AM   #3471
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For all of the people saying Gaudreau is definitely leaving, how do you interpret this from Burke?

https://www.thestar.com/sports/hocke...-nylander.html

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Now as a media guy, do you root for anyone?

I have a soft spot for my old teams. Mostly players, guys I drafted, or guys I traded for. Obviously that crop dwindles every year. Those guys in Calgary that were there when I drafted, they’ll be there for 10 more years. I cheer for Sam Bennett, Johnny Gaudreau. The one team I’ll always have a soft spot for is Philly, because it’s the only organization I ever played in. I only played one year pro, won a Calder Cup. Flyers were great to me. I scouted for them in my first year of law school.
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Old 10-18-2020, 12:55 AM   #3472
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For all of the people saying Gaudreau is definitely leaving, how do you interpret this from Burke?

https://www.thestar.com/sports/hocke...-nylander.html
Johnny was drafted when Burke was in the Toronto Org.
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Old 10-18-2020, 01:09 AM   #3473
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Johnny was drafted when Burke was in the Toronto Org.
Right you are. Guess I was thinking about when they signed him

Despite you being technically correct (the best kind of correct), does there seem to be an inference there though?
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Old 10-18-2020, 01:38 AM   #3474
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Burke hasn’t been in the org for over 2 years. I’m not sure his tuned into that kind of stuff.
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Old 10-18-2020, 07:05 AM   #3475
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You have to be naive if you don't think Burke and Treliving don't have some type of relationship. I'm sure they have the same thoughts on things such as that. I read it and thought Johnny and Bennett are probably keepers based on this season at least. This could change if an opinion goes south for anyone but I can see those two on the team one last year as management probably sees them as more-or-less, important pieces despite one being a third liner. I'm positive the team doesn't go into the season as-is, as Treliving never doesn't make a big trade, so we'll see who's on the outs.
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Old 10-18-2020, 08:03 AM   #3476
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Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache View Post
For all of the people saying Gaudreau is definitely leaving, how do you interpret this from Burke?

https://www.thestar.com/sports/hocke...-nylander.html

A meaning less comment with no insight if Johnny would re-sign. He is just listing some of his favourite players.
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Old 10-18-2020, 08:08 AM   #3477
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You have to be naive if you don't think Burke and Treliving don't have some type of relationship. I'm sure they have the same thoughts on things such as that. I read it and thought Johnny and Bennett are probably keepers based on this season at least. This could change if an opinion goes south for anyone but I can see those two on the team one last year as management probably sees them as more-or-less, important pieces despite one being a third liner. I'm positive the team doesn't go into the season as-is, as Treliving never doesn't make a big trade, so we'll see who's on the outs.
Burke and Treliving probably do have a relationship, but Brian Burke is no longer an employee of the Calgary Flames. I find it hard to believe he is privy to decisions on players in the organization. Heís only stating his opinion.
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Old 10-18-2020, 08:09 AM   #3478
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Winnipeg is loaded at wing, they'd have no interest in swapping Laine for Gaudreau. They're after a D, Hanifin would be a more likely target but I think they've got their eyes set on bigger targets, I.e. Ekblad.

I agree they wonít want Johnny for Laine. Think if they are talking to Calgary they are asking for Anderson . This is what I think it would take to get Laine at the bare minimum..... Anderson , Mangiapane and a 1st .
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Old 10-18-2020, 08:47 AM   #3479
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He obviously has no say in what the Flames do or don't do but in an industry where experts and whatnot are consulted on, it wouldn't surprise me if Treliving and Burke share thoughts. Whether Treliving decides to accept it or not, who knows, but it wouldn't be a stretch for Treliving to ask an opinion from Burke and others every now and then.
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Old 10-18-2020, 09:58 AM   #3480
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He obviously has no say in what the Flames do or don't do but in an industry where experts and whatnot are consulted on, it wouldn't surprise me if Treliving and Burke share thoughts. Whether Treliving decides to accept it or not, who knows, but it wouldn't be a stretch for Treliving to ask an opinion from Burke and others every now and then.
Thatís not the point. Burke was quoted as if he knew that Gaudreau was going to be a Flame for the long haul. I donít think thatís something even Treliving knows.
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