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Old 12-01-2020, 08:57 AM   #3281
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Her physique is cartoonish. All bodybuilders look cartoonish. Isn’t that the point? Doesn’t look remotely natural.
The point is I don't think Arnold's cartoonish bodybuilder physique negatively impacted his enjoyment of the Terminator movies(or maybe it did?) so why should it in this game.
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Old 12-01-2020, 10:30 AM   #3282
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The point is I don't think Arnold's cartoonish bodybuilder physique negatively impacted his enjoyment of the Terminator movies(or maybe it did?) so why should it in this game.
Because 0.0000000001% of the female population looks like that while muscle head males are not that rare. I had no issues with Ellie and Dina. In fact I found Dina the only likeable character in the game. That stuff never bothered me in Mass Effect and doesn't now. They throw in the transgender kid okay whatever. They killed of Joel who was the best character of the first game. Sucks but okay I can live with that if it has to further the story. Then they throw in Abbey who they kind of purposely made her out to be this cartoonish female to evoke more gender questions and even worse they may you play through half the game as her at a place in the game where they wanted you to hate her. I get that their idea was that you would play through her story and go from hating her to feeling sympathetic but I never felt sympathetic towards her as she was just as spiteful as the faceless enemies in the game you had to kill to progress.

I feel instead of making a great game they focused on making a game that would press the buttons of gamers. I play games to press the buttons I don't want some lesson in gender politics or a lesson from a writers who clearly have some resentment towards the human race. As a person that loved the first game I just wanted another great game like the that. They decided to make a sharp turn into politics and I play games to escape that ####. To make things worse they lost focus on the core gameplay elements and added filler levels of wandering around collecting stuff, encountering clickers, then evil humans. 1,2,3 next, 1,2,3 again. That's my opinion and if you loved the game then good for you as I'm not going to dispute why you liked it.

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Old 12-01-2020, 10:40 AM   #3283
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I play games to press the buttons I don't want some lesson in gender politics or a lesson from a writers who clearly have some resentment towards the human race. As a person that loved the first game I just wanted another great game like the that. They decided to make a sharp turn into politics and I play games to escape that ####.
Eh gender politics? What politics?
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Old 12-01-2020, 11:16 AM   #3284
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The point is I don't think Arnold's cartoonish bodybuilder physique negatively impacted his enjoyment of the Terminator movies(or maybe it did?) so why should it in this game.
I don't really want to wade into this too far because I didn't really care that much about Abbey's physique, but you get that these are different things, right? That it depends on the entertainment product in question? Barrett Wallace can look like Barrett Wallace in Final Fantasy 7. Stick him in The Division 2, and it becomes just a smidge jarring.

Suppose that in The Last of Us, the first game, Joel looked like prime bodybuilding age Arnold Schwarzennegger. You don't think that would have been a little weird, given the atmosphere and tone of the game?
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Old 12-01-2020, 12:01 PM   #3285
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Not trying to dredge that debate back out in the open, but the issue and controversy that I was mentioning that was stupid and way overblown, was the zero bombing reviews of the game. This by individuals who had never played the game (and likely still have not) just because they sniffed a bit of information that they wanted to turn into a full blown controversy.

All of your opinions on TLOU2 are valid, but I really doubt most of you took a look at the game and decided to rate it a 0/10 without playing it. Those that played the game and had major gripes with it still probably don't rate it a 0/10. That was the controversy and mess surrounding the game I really didn't enjoy and thought was stupid.
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Old 12-01-2020, 12:22 PM   #3286
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Originally Posted by Erick Estrada View Post
Because 0.0000000001% of the female population looks like that while muscle head males are not that rare. I had no issues with Ellie and Dina. In fact I found Dina the only likeable character in the game. That stuff never bothered me in Mass Effect and doesn't now. They throw in the transgender kid okay whatever. They killed of Joel who was the best character of the first game. Sucks but okay I can live with that if it has to further the story. Then they throw in Abbey who they kind of purposely made her out to be this cartoonish female to evoke more gender questions and even worse they may you play through half the game as her at a place in the game where they wanted you to hate her. I get that their idea was that you would play through her story and go from hating her to feeling sympathetic but I never felt sympathetic towards her as she was just as spiteful as the faceless enemies in the game you had to kill to progress.



I feel instead of making a great game they focused on making a game that would press the buttons of gamers. I play games to press the buttons I don't want some lesson in gender politics or a lesson from a writers who clearly have some resentment towards the human race. As a person that loved the first game I just wanted another great game like the that. They decided to make a sharp turn into politics and I play games to escape that ####. To make things worse they lost focus on the core gameplay elements and added filler levels of wandering around collecting stuff, encountering clickers, then evil humans. 1,2,3 next, 1,2,3 again. That's my opinion and if you loved the game then good for you as I'm not going to dispute why you liked it.


Nm

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Old 12-01-2020, 02:05 PM   #3287
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Jarring? Versus a short 19 year old teenaged girl that's maybe 110 pounds being able to mass murder 400-500 people over a span of a few days? Killing and manhandling grown men and women armed with full riot gear and guns; often in hand-to-hand combat just with a switch blade.

As for the "git ya politicks outta ma video games", I guess we shouldn't be too surprised given the state of the world, the hate and discrimination out there.

That the mere presence of anything other than a white straight male savior is somehow "political". That the mere existence of "other" people (minorities, women, body types, genders, etc.) in somebody's fictional story or video game is something to complain and fight against.

In 2020, it's a hell of hill to die on.
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Old 12-01-2020, 02:26 PM   #3288
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That the mere presence of anything other than a white straight male savior is somehow "political". That the mere existence of "other" people (minorities, women, body types, genders, etc.) in somebody's fictional story or video game is something to complain and fight against.
This just isn't remotely true. There will always be a small, loud cadre of crazies who will say stupid and crazy things, but leaving them aside, no one had a problem with Aloy as the hero in Horizon Zero Dawn, or 2B in Nier Automata, or Ellie. No one has a problem with Miles Morales in Spider Man, or Delsin Rowe, or Alyx Vance, or Senua, because they're women or minorities or gay. I don't recall hearing any controversy about being able to play as FemShep in Mass Effect (Jennifer Hale was the objectively superior voice actor, fight me). I haven't played any of the newer Tomb Raider games, but I'm not aware of any controversy over a female-led series in that case either.

I really think you're fighting a fight that doesn't really exist outside of the margins of idiots who can be safely ignored. Most people don't object to this and actually welcome something different... provided it's executed well. It's exactly like people levying this kind of accusation at die-hard Star Wars fans because they rejected Rey, ignoring how completely bat#### crazy with excitement they become at the prospect of getting a live action Ahsoka Tano. If people don't fall in love a character you've written for them and you immediately assume that the problem must be that they're just bad people, you're likely not intellectually capable of creating the character you wanted to create.
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Old 12-01-2020, 02:36 PM   #3289
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Yeah, I'm trying to understand how there was a "lesson in gender politics" being forced upon people here.
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Old 12-01-2020, 02:46 PM   #3290
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Well, there was the fairly cliche "my parents won't accept who I really am" storyline with Lev. I wouldn't necessarily say it was forced on anyone, but it certainly felt forced in the sense of being poor storytelling, like its purpose wasn't to improve the overall game story so much as to impart a moral lesson, really hamfistedly.
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Old 12-01-2020, 02:51 PM   #3291
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To be honest I missed it the first time playing as it's barely in there.

But if that is supposed the be a "sharp turn into a political lesson in gender politics" . . .
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Old 12-01-2020, 03:27 PM   #3292
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I really think you're fighting a fight that doesn't really exist outside of the margins of idiots who can be safely ignored. Most people don't object to this and actually welcome something different... provided it's executed well. It's exactly like people levying this kind of accusation at die-hard Star Wars fans because they rejected Rey, ignoring how completely bat#### crazy with excitement they become at the prospect of getting a live action Ahsoka Tano. If people don't fall in love a character you've written for them and you immediately assume that the problem must be that they're just bad people, you're likely not intellectually capable of creating the character you wanted to create.
Pretty much this for me. I find the "bah! gender! politics! ma videogames!" rhetoric to be ignorant enough to be ignorable, honestly. It's kind of pathetic. But by the same token, I find the "well if you didn't like this character or relationship, it was obviously because of this reason so you're BAD" to be about the same. It's just two very loud margins at opposite sides yelling at each other.

For me, Lev's storyline was a pointless moral commentary. I didn't like it. Not because I didn't like the commentary or that they tried to add that commentary, but because it seemed pointless and included for its own sake. It didn't seem genuine or to have any kind of weight that mattered to the game, and I hate that.

Same with Ellie and Dina's relationship. Of course I'm a big fan of normalizing LGBTQ relationships in media that in general has a serious lack of them. Love it! But theirs sucked. It felt so fake and unnatural. I didn't buy it for a second. Not only because of the relationship itself, but also in context of the overall story of the game and the world they're supposed to be in. Maybe they had trouble nailing a LGBTQ relationship, maybe they had trouble nailing a romantic relationship in the context of violence and revenge, maybe it fell apart when they tried to do both. I don't know. It sucked. It's just bad writing.

I can see why people took issue with the "wokeness" of the game, because a lot of it is just included for the sake of including it. I take some issue with people who say they don't want that commentary or those kind of characters in their game, but I take no issue with people who are annoyed that they did it so poorly.
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Old 12-01-2020, 06:53 PM   #3293
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I didn't hate the Dina Ellie relationship, partly because I liked Dina more than the other new additions to the cast. But I did enjoy Ellie and Riley more in the DLC for the first one... those parts were more or less impossible to play without a smile on your face.
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Old 12-01-2020, 07:21 PM   #3294
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Originally Posted by chemgear View Post
That the mere presence of anything other than a white straight male savior is somehow "political". That the mere existence of "other" people (minorities, women, body types, genders, etc.) in somebody's fictional story or video game is something to complain and fight against.

In 2020, it's a hell of hill to die on.
I think you are barking up the wrong tree. I don't really care about gender or nationality of the main character of a game and have never been homophobic as I hung with gay people in the 80's for crying out loud. I chose Kassandra when I played through AC Odyssey and as I said before I had no issues with gay relationships in Mass Effect in fact I was went down the same sex path in those games. Everything in this game seemed forced and I hated how the game hammered you over the head with this "humans are bad" message. Yes there are bad people in the world but I just can't believe we would all degenerate into cold blooded killers like the story depicted.
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Old 12-01-2020, 08:01 PM   #3295
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Because 0.0000000001% of the female population looks like that while muscle head males are not that rare. I had no issues with Ellie and Dina. In fact I found Dina the only likeable character in the game. That stuff never bothered me in Mass Effect and doesn't now. They throw in the transgender kid okay whatever. They killed of Joel who was the best character of the first game. Sucks but okay I can live with that if it has to further the story. Then they throw in Abbey who they kind of purposely made her out to be this cartoonish female to evoke more gender questions and even worse they may you play through half the game as her at a place in the game where they wanted you to hate her. I get that their idea was that you would play through her story and go from hating her to feeling sympathetic but I never felt sympathetic towards her as she was just as spiteful as the faceless enemies in the game you had to kill to progress.

I feel instead of making a great game they focused on making a game that would press the buttons of gamers. I play games to press the buttons I don't want some lesson in gender politics or a lesson from a writers who clearly have some resentment towards the human race. As a person that loved the first game I just wanted another great game like the that. They decided to make a sharp turn into politics and I play games to escape that ####. To make things worse they lost focus on the core gameplay elements and added filler levels of wandering around collecting stuff, encountering clickers, then evil humans. 1,2,3 next, 1,2,3 again. That's my opinion and if you loved the game then good for you as I'm not going to dispute why you liked it.
The developers threw everything at the player to try to get you to like(or at least not hate) her in the end and it totally worked for me. I acknowledge that for others it didn't but I didn't think her appearance would be one of the reasons. Just seems ridiculous to me.

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I don't really want to wade into this too far because I didn't really care that much about Abbey's physique, but you get that these are different things, right? That it depends on the entertainment product in question? Barrett Wallace can look like Barrett Wallace in Final Fantasy 7. Stick him in The Division 2, and it becomes just a smidge jarring.

Suppose that in The Last of Us, the first game, Joel looked like prime bodybuilding age Arnold Schwarzennegger. You don't think that would have been a little weird, given the atmosphere and tone of the game?
Erick was the one to bring up and compare it to the movies and Terminator. Was just following along.

If Joel had 24/7 access to a gym with food and was hell bent on getting revenge on the soldier that killed Sarah then sure why not lol.

Also I think you guys are exaggerating how big/unrealistic/rare her build was. For instance she seems around the same size as Cara Dune from the Mandalorian.
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Old 12-02-2020, 09:50 AM   #3296
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... now I just want Barrett Wallace in The Division 2.
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Old 12-02-2020, 11:49 AM   #3297
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Because 0.0000000001% of the female population looks like that while muscle head males are not that rare. I had no issues with Ellie and Dina.
Ummm I'm not sure this is true. And even if it is true then it doesn't mean that they aren't females that exist that have that physique.

With the emergence of CrossFit and Female Bodybuilding you see a lot of females that are more muscular and fit now.

As somebody else mentioned her physique was modelled after a real person (a female crossfit athlete).

In fact I have two close friends who are really into CrossFit that when they were the most serious about CrossFit would have a similar build to Abby.

Honestly don't think it's out of the question that somebody living through a apocalypse like this that has been trained to be a soldier would become more physically fit over time as well.

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Everything in this game seemed forced and I hated how the game hammered you over the head with this "humans are bad" message. Yes there are bad people in the world but I just can't believe we would all degenerate into cold blooded killers like the story depicted.
This is fair criticism but also tends to be a trope found in any type of zombie apocalypse/virus type of storyline. The Walking Dead has turned this storyline into an ongoing comic (193 comics), 11 seasons of TV and two spin off shows.

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Old 12-04-2020, 12:57 PM   #3298
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Is it just me, or do the RE remakes feel a little clunky control wise? Obviously they're way better than the originals, but I keep feeling like there's a slight be of input lag and/or I'm randomly getting snagged on a pixel or something.

Maybe my controller just sucks, IDK.
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Old 12-04-2020, 05:28 PM   #3299
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I thoroughly enjoyed and beat The Last of Us. One of my favorite games of all time.
The Last of Us 2, I stopped playing and don't think I will finish it. I play games to be entertained. I was not entertained by the 2nd installment.

For whatever reason it is not good. Maybe I am a bigot, don't care.

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Jarring? Versus a short 19 year old teenaged girl that's maybe 110 pounds being able to mass murder 400-500 people over a span of a few days? Killing and manhandling grown men and women armed with full riot gear and guns; often in hand-to-hand combat just with a switch blade.

As for the "git ya politicks outta ma video games", I guess we shouldn't be too surprised given the state of the world, the hate and discrimination out there.

That the mere presence of anything other than a white straight male savior is somehow "political". That the mere existence of "other" people (minorities, women, body types, genders, etc.) in somebody's fictional story or video game is something to complain and fight against.

In 2020, it's a hell of hill to die on.
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Old 12-05-2020, 06:37 PM   #3300
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After all the hype I finally picked up the original Last of Us Remastered for $10. This....is not my kinda game. I'm maybe 3 hours in and I've yet to see why it's fun, entertaining, or as highly rated as it was.

Different strokes, I guess.
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