Treliving needs to start feeling the heat

[442scotty]

If Peters is the guy Treliving better hit a couple of home runs this summer then clean out some lockers to give us something more to look forward to this fall.

[Snuffleupagus]

Every GM makes a colossal mistake once in a while, the good ones find a way to fix those mistakes.

Treliving signing Brouwer to be a top 6 RW ended up being bad but seemingly not trying very hard to find another is really bad.

He gets a D- for not finding a skilled RW at the deadline.

Not protecting the 1st rounder for Hamonic can't be fixed and could turn out to be career ending.

Jury's out on the Backlund deal, we'll see

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

...Treliving signing Brouwer to be a top 6 RW ended up being bad but [B]seemingly not trying very hard to find another is really bad.

I think this is pretty presumptuous, and would expect based on his comments to start the season that Treliving was in fact working hard to find a viable upgrade up front.

He gets a D- for not finding a skilled RW at the deadline.

Do you believe he should have paid the price to acquire Evander Kane?

[GioforPM]

[QUOTE=Snuffleupagus;6664411]Every GM makes a colossal mistake once in a while, the good ones find a way to fix those mistakes.

Treliving signing Brouwer to be a top 6 RW ended up being bad but seemingly not trying very hard to find another is really bad.

He gets a D- for not finding a skilled RW at the deadline.

Not protecting the 1st rounder for Hamonic can't be fixed and could turn out to be career ending.

Jury's out on the Backlund deal, we'll see[/Q]

Lots of people thought the Jagr signing would add scoring. Not a top RW per se, but 15-20 more goals.

I still believe that the lack of protection of the pick was a NYI demand and was what it took to beat teams like Edmonton.

The Backlund deal is pretty good value. There's not much room to criticize Tre on contract negotiations. It makes his UFA deals a little surprising.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Not protecting the 1st rounder for Hamonic can't be fixed and could turn out to be career ending.

This deal gets maligned a lot more than it needs to be.

In a league where upcoming UFAs like Regehr and Doug Murray (both defensive dmen) were traded for two 2nd rounders, a 1st and two 2nds for a much younger signed Hamonic at a decent cap hit is merely market value. The rumour that the Leafs offered a 1st and JVR shows we weren't the only team offering that much for him.

I think fans underestimate how much GM's are willing to pay for defensive dmen. The trade deadline proves how valuable they are over and over again. The amount they get paid on July 1st proves how valuable GM's think they are over and over again.

I think Hamonic went for market value. I think the deal in isolation is perfectly fine.

Of course you can make the argument that we needed depth scoring more than a physical, defensive dman. That's a perfectly valid argument IMO. I think we needed both. I think Treliving probably wanted to improve both areas, failed to get a depth scorer other than Jagr and the Jagr experiment was mostly a failure. So thats on Treliving for sure.

You can also make the argument that perhaps Treliving overestimated how close we were to contending. Perfectly valid argument. IMO coaching let us down big time this season and under a different coach we actually would have made the playoffs. I think Treliving gave GG the tools to be a playoff team but GG mismanaged them.

In the end I think the Hamonic deal gets ragged on more than it should be. Hamonic is a useful player. Some fans underestimate how valuable defensive defensemen are. Sure they don't get the sexy points but they can be integral parts of a winning team. Even with hindsight and my love of having draft picks I don't hate the deal. It's far, far from Treliving's biggest mistake IMO.

Treliving's biggest mistakes have been in free agency so far. Both Raymond and Brouwer were complete misses when Treliving tried to add depth scoring. Hopefully he's learned from those mistakes.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Do you believe he should have paid the price to acquire Evander Kane?

Nope, didn't want Kane because of the price, Vanek was my guy, he could have gotten our PP going and Vancouver gave him away

[Itse]

We could really use a guy like Kane though, goalscorer with speed and swagger.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

This deal gets maligned a lot more than it needs to be.

In a league where upcoming UFAs like Regehr and Doug Murray (both defensive dmen) were traded for two 2nd rounders

Hamonic is absolutely worth a mid-late 1st, and two 2nds but he's not worth close to a first overall or even top 3. as soon as the lottery rules changed only GM's with cream-of-crop teams would ever consider not protecting the pick.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Itse

We could really use a guy like Kane though, goalscorer with speed and swagger.

Of course, but he would have bolted after this season and we loose another 1st rounder in 2019. at least San Jose may be able to keep him.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Of course, but he would have bolted after this season and we loose another 1st rounder in 2019. at least San Jose may be able to keep him.

Yeah, he seems like a guy who wants to play in a big city, preferably somewhere warm.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Hamonic is absolutely worth a mid-late 1st, and two 2nds but he's not worth close to a first overall or even top 3. as soon as the lottery rules changed only GM's with cream-of-crop teams would ever consider not protecting the pick.

Yeah. Mid round picks are fine in the deal.
And it's great to have confidence that you don't need to protect it, but that pick needed to be lottery protected. If they don't do the deal with a protected pick, you walk away I think.
Easy to say now, I guess, but...

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Yeah. Mid round picks are fine in the deal.
And it's great to have confidence that you don't need to protect it, but that pick needed to be lottery protected. If they don't do the deal with a protected pick, you walk away I think.
Easy to say now, I guess, but...

i think a lot of posters were surprised that it wasn't lottery protected 1st rounder... I mean, Calgary barely made the playoffs, got swept in four games and just traded for a 35 year old goalie...

not sure how anyone in management could think that the playoffs in 2018 was just going to be automatic.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Nope, didn't want Kane because of the price, Vanek was my guy, he could have gotten our PP going and Vancouver gave him away

Think again, you really believe he could've help PP?

[Calgary4LIfe]

I don't see Treliving getting any poor marks for not bringing in a RW'er. I don't think that this team has an issue scoring. I think the system made it more difficult for the existing players to score.

People keep bringing up the "what keeps you up at night" question the previous off-season, to which Treliving replied: "Goal scoring". Well, IIRC, he said that the first off-season he was GM of Calgary. The one that made the playoffs. The one that did pretty well in scoring overall. That I think is Treliving just giving out a fluff remark - there isn't a single GM that doesn't worry about his team scoring enough goals (and preventing enough).

I am hopeful now that with a new coach - whether a good hire or not - will at least look at the roster and try and design a system that helps this team play quicker and uses the blue-line more effectively to generate offence. Do that, and this team will become a team that doesn't have trouble scoring again. It isn't just the defence scoring goals - those assists will come from helping the depth scorers as well.

I honestly do think that this team - if they play the right way - can both score well AND defend well. Under Hartley, they scored well and defended mediocre - not so much due to the system, but more because of the lack of actual talent on the roster.

I look at this team since Treliving has taken over, and without question it is more talented NOW than when he first arrived. I look at the prospects in the system - I see way more potential NHL'ers on defence and in net, but see less potential impact forwards.

All in all, I think Treliving has done well. The biggest area of contention thus far has been in coaching. That is what I think this team has had the toughest time with. I can only name 3 good coaches and a '.5' - Bob Johnson, Darryl Sutter, Bob Hartley (a bone of contention here) and Terry Crisp (he gets the .5 from me).

These are the ONLY coaches in Calgary Flames history to over-achieve or exceed expectations.

I don't like what SEEMS like so many similarities with Peters and Gulutzan, but the jury is still very much out when it comes to Peters. It may cost Treliving his job depending on how this hire goes - though quite honestly, any hire would be putting his own job on the line (except perhaps Sutter, but ONLY because if that tweet was true, Treliving could go back to ownership and say: "this is why I didn't think he was right").

This is just the start of the off-season. I am happy if the Flames stand pat. Ecstatic if they manage to move some of what I consider some dead weight from the roster for picks, but happy as it stands. I think the system will have a lot more to do with how this team ends up in the standings more than any trade or signing would at this point. This is what I consider to be a good team that has been underachieving. Hopefully under Peters, they will at least meet expectations, but hopefully they will over-achieve and I can add another coach to the list that I thought was a damn good coach and a damn good fit.

[dissentowner]

Treliving has made some decent deals but he has screwed up more than he has done good things for this team. He has made bad signings in Brouwer and Raymond, he overpaid Stone, he has traded away too many picks and did not lottery protect the 1st given for Hamonic. He totally missed when he hired GG which can be forgiven but then he is hiring a less successful coach who is carbon copy of the guy he just let go with the exception of being a tough coach instead of a players coach. That whole ball got rolling after he fired Hartley who was a proven coach who has had success in the NHL. He totally b.s. the fan base by telling them he was going to do an extensive search for a new head coach who has experience when he already knew exactly who he was going after. He isn't interviewing anyone else, he has his GG clone. I am done with Treliving personally, he has done more damage than good and he seems dishonest, get him outta here.

[bubbsy]

Dishonest seems harsh, but i will say the gm is greatly overrated. He has been completely ineffective at improving the quality of the team results in his tenure here, has little read on the roster as far as im concerned.

[442scotty]

I sure hope a new system makes a big difference and it's not so much the talent level as some suggest but this pig is gonna need more than lipstick to look like the Bruins/Jets. Sorry Charlie.... Only Starkist can be Starkist

[kyuss275]

I think some of the posters criticizing Tre are leaving out some important issues.
The main issue is that as much as some posters feel that Feaster left the cupboards on prospects full , it is not the case. He had constructed bad teams that finished seasons with high 1st round picks. That's how we got Mony. Feaster then traded every player with value for nothing . Where are all these players that were suppose to be helping out by now? Players like Sven, poirier, Klimchuck, wotherspoon etc. Let's not forget the 2 best goalies outside the NHL in Ramo and Berra. There is a reason that Tre has had to use picks to fill in gaps on this team .

As for first round picks one of the players that came back is Hamilton. You make that trade every day of the week. I do think they overpaid on harmonic but not with the first. The extra 2 no pick was the overpayment. A young cost controlled 2nd pairing dman is going to cost a 1st and 2nd. That's what we could probably get for Brodie

[I_H8_Crawford]

I'm not happy with the new coach hire. I am giving them 20 games (1/4 of the season) to show me this is not going to be the same garbage we've had to endure the past couple years.

If this team is still out/bubble playoff team then I will be calling for Tre's head as well.

[dino7c]

If you lottery protect a pick it is still unprotected the next season...can't just protect it forever