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Old 08-27-2019, 11:16 PM   #81
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I have a BSc in Computer Sciences.


It got me a job out of university that was basically setting up networks at law firms using Lan in a Can (what a piece of crap that was). My second job was writing a Restaurant Management System for a consulting firm to sell. After that, I realized how much I hated support and development, and my later jobs have very little to do with my career.


Plus I doubt there's anyone looking for someone with strong Cobol, Fortran and Prolog development skills any more.
Banks still need Cobol guys...I met one making a mint doing it. Legacy systems everywhere.
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Old 08-28-2019, 07:02 AM   #82
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I disagree with this statement, but respect your right to say it. Mine was the best deal ever, $18k for unlimited earning opportunities, what a great trade. A few years ago I gave up my P.Eng, but I still use the knowledge from school every day in my current role. As for the CFA I went and did post uni, it was also worth every late week night after work or night out on the weekend I had to skip.
Yeah I can't say I use the exact knowledge from my undergrad, but the CFA charter is a whole different ballgame. To me it's sort of like a white-collar trade though. I imagine that tradesmen use their education daily and that's a similar way I view the charter. And of course without the degree, no charter...so it's entirely necessary for me in that vein.

Overall, I'll encourage my kids to do some post-secondary education. I think that a university degree is still valuable. You're still in the minority when you have one, and it does demonstrate that you can compete a course of study. I also think that the liberal arts element is useful. You might change your mind later in life and at least you have some exposure to things other than your major, which I think is a definite positive.
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Old 08-28-2019, 07:43 AM   #83
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I got an undergrad degree (Math) from a liberal arts school and ended up in surveying. The math didn’t transfer (all the math I need for the work I learned in HS) but the critical thinking skills I acquired were invaluable. I also learned how to budget and how to write and gained much needed self confidence.

I also met an education student that I later married so you can say that I also got a family and half of a pension out of it too.
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Old 08-28-2019, 10:10 AM   #84
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Virtually all degrees train critical thinking. That's one of the primary goals of post-secondary.

I won't hire anyone that doesn't have or is not currently pursuing a post-secondary education anymore, even for the lowliest job. The worst employees we have had by far are those that just have high school. They can't think on their own at all, their judgments are all wrong, and worse of all, they don't know that they don't know things.
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Old 08-28-2019, 10:58 AM   #85
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Yes and no.

I've never worked a day in my life doing a job my degree is in, but without my degree I would not be in my current position. Connections I made during by school years led to my first job which led into my career path. I use the skills I developed every day even if I do not use the technical knowledge very often.
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Old 08-28-2019, 11:02 AM   #86
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I got an undergrad degree (Math) from a liberal arts school and ended up in surveying. The math didn’t transfer (all the math I need for the work I learned in HS) but the critical thinking skills I acquired were invaluable. I also learned how to budget and how to write and gained much needed self confidence.

I also met an education student that I later married so you can say that I also got a family and half of a pension out of it too.
glad to see there's two of us liberal arts math people out here!
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Old 08-28-2019, 12:20 PM   #87
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I consider all my degrees to be useful in my career, but my undergrad in philosophy is the most useful. A great foundation for everything else in life.
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Old 08-28-2019, 09:56 PM   #88
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I was talking about this thread with a friend and I realized there are really TWO questions being asked.

The first one is "do you use the skills you learned in your degree?"

And the second is "Did you get your money's worth?"

I feel these are two very different questions, though my answer to both would be yes.

To that end, here is a data visualization of the ROI of American Universities:
https://public.tableau.com/profile/d...rnonInvestment
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Old 08-29-2019, 07:39 AM   #89
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The third question would be how many degrees/certificates do you have and how often did you have to switch?
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Old 08-29-2019, 08:39 AM   #90
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My diploma from SAIT was good enough to get me my first entry level job in IT. Since then everything I've needed to know I've learned on my own or through specialty courses that work sends me on. And I don't know anyone in IT management who cares about what school prospective hires went to or what piece of paper they got from it, the only thing that matters is experience level and certs
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Old 08-29-2019, 08:54 AM   #91
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I was talking about this thread with a friend and I realized there are really TWO questions being asked.

The first one is "do you use the skills you learned in your degree?"
That is a different question to the one posed. Do you use the "skills" is different that do you "use" your degree? Skills is wide open to interpretation. If you have an engineering degree that may mean that you are using the specialized education from that program to do work on a day-to-day basis, or to obtain and maintain your stamp. It could also mean that you are leveraging the critical thinking and methodological skills you developed in your day-to-day life.

Using your degree could be as simple as having it to meet minimum qualifications for a position you are in or applying for. Without a degree, especially a baccalaureate degree, you may not have the qualifications to even earn an interview. My job is heavily predicated on my having a doctorate. I may not be leveraging the subject matter expertise that I earned the doctorate in, but the reality is that without that terminal degree I would not have had opportunity to be considered for the job I currently hold.

So the questions are very different.

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And the second is "Did you get your money's worth?"
This is impossible to determine, as people don't understand the true value of education for years, or even decades, after they complete their degree. There is always buyers remorse, especially when the student debt becomes concrete and the payments start being made. People many times do not appreciate the changes that come with education. They don't appreciate the social mobility it provides. They don't appreciate the opportunity it provides and the advantages it grants, just by earning a degree. They don't appreciate the networks their education opens up. They don't appreciate the better person they've become because of exposure to new ideas and ways of thinking. These are benefits and measures that people many times over-look when they take on the process of evaluating whether they got their money's worth. They also don't appreciate the life long access to improved earning they have just by having that piece of paper. The realization of all of these benefits does not come quickly. It takes years to understand the benefits.

Most people won't get it until they are well into their post-education lives, have had a couple decades of work behind them, and have seen the benefits first hand. Many times this realization doesn't hit home until they have their own kids and are trying to help them decide the biggest decision of their young lives - where to go to college/university. At that point the realization of the value of that degree and the many opportunities it afforded them hits home.
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Old 08-29-2019, 09:02 AM   #92
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Virtually all degrees train critical thinking. That's one of the primary goals of post-secondary.

I won't hire anyone that doesn't have or is not currently pursuing a post-secondary education anymore, even for the lowliest job. The worst employees we have had by far are those that just have high school. They can't think on their own at all, their judgments are all wrong, and worse of all, they don't know that they don't know things.
This seems like a bit of a generalization. You haven't had any bad employees who have had post secondary education? I have worked with many employees who don't have a degree who out perform their peers. There is a reason why big multinational corporations have decided college degrees aren't needed for jobs anymore.
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Old 08-29-2019, 09:32 AM   #93
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This seems like a bit of a generalization. You haven't had any bad employees who have had post secondary education? I have worked with many employees who don't have a degree who out perform their peers. There is a reason why big multinational corporations have decided college degrees aren't needed for jobs anymore.
This comment is a bit of a generalization as well. Minimum qualifications have shifted and don't ask for specifics in education or certification. They instead focus on specific skills or functions where an expertise can be displayed. This is more of a legal thing than it is a shift in attitudes. Look at preferred experience to see where the true filters apply. Given two equal candidates, the one with the highest degree will filter/score higher and almost always win the competition (yes, that is a generalization).

I actually agree with you on what you are saying. Degrees are over-rated. My best employee does not have a degree. He is extremely bright and scores incredibly high on the emotional intelligence index. He could have a really go places... if he only had a degree. He got his foot in the door and progressed very far. But if he wants to go anywhere in management, he needs the degree and likely a graduate degree. It sucks, but that is the competition he is going to face trying to step up into senior management and having any aspirations on the C suite. But that is the way the system is stacked up and what people have to live with.
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Old 08-29-2019, 10:26 AM   #94
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This seems like a bit of a generalization. You haven't had any bad employees who have had post secondary education? I have worked with many employees who don't have a degree who out perform their peers. There is a reason why big multinational corporations have decided college degrees aren't needed for jobs anymore.
Of course I've worked with idiots that have post-sec.

I mean yeah, there's people out there that don't have post-sec and are great workers. Those people are easy to spot because they accomplished goals at work. And they're also rare.

But if I'm hiring someone that doesn't have 20 years of experience, you bet post-sec matters.
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Old 08-29-2019, 10:55 AM   #95
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This comment is a bit of a generalization as well. Minimum qualifications have shifted and don't ask for specifics in education or certification. They instead focus on specific skills or functions where an expertise can be displayed. This is more of a legal thing than it is a shift in attitudes. Look at preferred experience to see where the true filters apply. Given two equal candidates, the one with the highest degree will filter/score higher and almost always win the competition (yes, that is a generalization).

I actually agree with you on what you are saying. Degrees are over-rated. My best employee does not have a degree. He is extremely bright and scores incredibly high on the emotional intelligence index. He could have a really go places... if he only had a degree. He got his foot in the door and progressed very far. But if he wants to go anywhere in management, he needs the degree and likely a graduate degree. It sucks, but that is the competition he is going to face trying to step up into senior management and having any aspirations on the C suite. But that is the way the system is stacked up and what people have to live with.
Can I ask why?
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Old 08-29-2019, 11:03 AM   #96
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Who the hell knows. I think he's full of poop. He's his employee, shouldn't it be up to him?
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Old 08-29-2019, 11:07 AM   #97
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The leftover debt from a University degree is about equal to buying a brand new truck, it might even be a little less depending on your living situation. I think that putting it in those terms makes a 4 year degree seem like it is a lot more worth it in terms of economic and emotional value.
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Old 08-29-2019, 11:09 AM   #98
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My diploma from SAIT was good enough to get me my first entry level job in IT. Since then everything I've needed to know I've learned on my own or through specialty courses that work sends me on. And I don't know anyone in IT management who cares about what school prospective hires went to or what piece of paper they got from it, the only thing that matters is experience level and certs

You are right. I am in IT as well and I found most of the skills and knowledge I need is either from training courses the company sent me through or from Google searches.

The university degree I got helped me get an alumni discount on insurance and I don't even know how much it saves me...
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Old 08-29-2019, 11:09 AM   #99
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The leftover debt from a University degree is about equal to buying a brand new truck, it might even be a little less depending on your living situation. I think that putting it in those terms makes a 4 year degree seem like it is a lot more worth it in terms of economic and emotional value.
And its not even that much if you work during the summer and use your money smartly.
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Old 08-29-2019, 11:29 AM   #100
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I'm actually one of the rare political science grads who didn't intern or co-op anywhere and gets to use his degree.
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