[PGT] Flames barbecue the Wings 6-4

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It also implies that Rittich, or another backup, let's in less than those three goals. Since not every goal against is Smith's fault, just like any other goalie, that's not an automatic assumption.

Look at the weakest goal last night - the 5 on 3 goal. Does another goalie stop it? Maybe, but then again it was a wide open shot from middle distance in the centre slot. And it was 5 on 3 - any rebound and there's two extra Wings to go for it.

Or maybe another goalie doesn't make the saves that Smith did make - a couple point blank ones, like the double chance near the end of the game. Or doesn't disrupt the dump in like he did numerous times (we've seen Rittich mess those up sometimes).

What I'm saying overall is that just because a Smith win came with 3 goals against doesn't mean that it's not a loss without the Flames scoring 4 in front of any other goalie.

If I am reading this correctly, the 2nd and third paragraphs basically say to not bother with comparison, introducing mystery box logic. The shot could have been saved, but maybe there is a rebound that becomes a goal.

The summary with that stacked triple negative - um, thanks for clearing that up.

My head hurts

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I wonder if any of the Mike Smith defenders remember Brian Elliott’s performance in the playoffs 2 seasons ago? That’s a similar type of result I could forsee happening with Mike Smith in net. If for whatever reason, he ends up as the only goaltending option available to us, he could just as easily cost the Flames their playoff run like Elliott did...

Perhaps, but this is not something that will be fixed by adding another backup goalie. If the Flames are starting their backup in the playoffs chances are very high that they are going to lose the series. There is not much that can fix that.

Teams are targeting a very specific weakness that Mike Smith cannot seem to shore up, the hole between the arms and his body (both sides). He gave up another 2 yesterday through those specific holes, which by my count, has to be around 20 so far this season.

I see this posted a lot, and I don't buy it. I mean, yes, players will get scouting reports on goalies that they face, but the game is usually too fast for even the best players to "target" specific areas with any consistency. This is not a special issue exclusive to Smith, and it is not easily resolved by adding a different goalie, who suffers from weaknesses in his game that may or may not be the same as Smith's.

The Flames have to seek high and low for a second option here. In the playoffs and against good teams, Mike Smith’s weakness will only be further exploited. Sure, the Flames are outscoring their problems now, but what happens when scoring decreases significantly in the playoffs when there’s tighter checking and increased usage of the trap? The Flames might not be able to outscore Smith’s blunders.

So, as I pointed out above, the "problem" with Mike Smith as of late is actually more of a problem the team has with whomever is playing in goal on home ice. The Flames defense has been marginal and it needs to tighten up. That would go a very long way to seeing an improvement overall in goal, and is not at all dependent upon making a costly deal.

The good thing is the market for goaltenders doesn’t seem to be that hot and there could be quite a few UFA goaltenders available at the TDL. Perhaps a mid to late pick could nab a Ryan Miller, or a Curtis McElhinney, or even an Anders Nilsson if they’re available. If they want a higher quality second option, then Kinkaid and Howard could also be potential options.

What makes you think that the market is not "hot"? On the contrary, I see a few available possible upgrades, but with how little activity there has been I suspect that the prices are sky-high right now. I see no evidence that suggests this is an easy fix mid-season.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Perhaps, but this is not something that will be fixed by adding another backup goalie. If the Flames are starting their backup in the playoffs chances are very high that they are going to lose the series. There is not much that can fix that.


I see this posted a lot, and I don't buy it. I mean, yes, players will get scouting reports on goalies that they face, but the game is usually too fast for even the best players to "target" specific areas with any consistency. This is not a special issue exclusive to Smith, and it is not easily resolved by adding a different goalie, who suffers from weaknesses in his game that may or may not be the same as Smith's.


So, as I pointed out above, the "problem" with Mike Smith is actually more of a problem the team has with whomever is playing in goal on home ice. The Flames defense has been marginal and it needs to tighten up. That would go a very long way to seeing an improvement overall in goal, and is not at all dependent upon making a costly deal.


What makes you think that the market is not "hot"? On the contrary, I see a few available possible upgrades, but with how little activity there has been I suspect that the prices are sky-high right now. I see no evidence that suggests this is an easy fix mid-season.

I think people are noting that the concern with Smith is shots that he should stop but doesn’t.

Concerning your stance about teams not having time, for practical purposes, target certain areas, suppose you are right. Then what is the team strategy? Just shoot it right at him and some will just find their way through? That is even more damning, no?

I know it’s hardly worth discussing here because people think Eichel picking a corner high glove on Rittich is something he should stop, whereas goals that squeak between Smith’s arm and body are influenced by many factors such as loose team D.

[Classic_Sniper]

Points in no specific order:

- Anders Nilsson was had for practically nothing and he’s been good for Ottawa

- Curtis McElhinney waa actually had for nothing and he’s been good for Carolina. Good goaltenders can be had for cheap.

- The goaltending market like anything, will drop based on supply and demand. Prices might be “high” right now, but unless teams want to walk away with nothing for their asset, they’ll trade theirs for the best offer and I don’t see a lot of playoff teams scrambling for goaltenders right now.

- Mike Smith might be winning games right now, but on a worse team, he would have a worse record and even worse numbers than he already has.

- Lastly, I find it very hard to believe you don’t believe that the best hockey players in the world don’t target specific areas. Mantha knew exactly where he was going to shoot yesterday and it worked. Heck, I would’ve shot the exact same place because I know it’s a known weakness. Just look back at all the soft goals he’s let in this season, it’s all in and around hisn#6 and #7 hole.

All you have to do is ask yourself this question, how many goals has David Rittich allowed to leak through in that exact same fashion, personally, I can’t even think of one. It’s absolutely Smith’s weakness and it’s known across the league. There’s even a good reason for it, chest protectors league wide have been slimmed down and it’s affected Mike Smith probably more than anyone.

[Enoch Root]

I could live with giving up a mid-round pick for a decent backup. But even with that, you're fiddling with the chemistry in the room. And for what? Insurance against a Rittich injury. But if that happens, how deep are they going with a backup anyway?

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I think something that is lost in this also is how Rittich has been playing at the Saddledome for the past few weeks. It's really impressive that he has yet to lose a game in regulation at home, but he is benefitting from a lot of that same "run support" that Mike Smith does, especially most recently.

In his last six home starts since the beginning of December:

· TB: 4 GA, OTL, 0.889 SP
· Vancouver: 3 GA, OTL, 0.889 SP
· SJ: 5 GA, W, 0.848 SP
· Colorado, 3 GA, W, 0.914 SP
· Florida, 3 GA, W, 0.889 SP
· Buffalo: 4 GA, OTL, 0.826 SP

That is not a great stat-line, and it appears actually pretty comparable to Mike Smith's. I think this serves to underscore what a lot of us have been seeing for a while now—the Flames have been far too loose in their own zone on home ice for several weeks now. No goalie is going to improve on what either Rittich or Smith has been delivering as of late because that is not where the problem is.

I agree the Flames have been playing too loose, but your conclusion is pretty bold. No goalie could have been better? No one could have stopped one of three shots Buffalo took in the 3rd and overtime? I feel that in addition to team sloppiness, Rittich may be coming back down to earth, which wouldn’t be terribly surprising.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

The back up goaltender could suddenly become the #1 if there’s an injury though. I don’t look at it Smith as the “back up,” I look at him as the second option and I don’t like the idea of him being the potential last line of defense in the playoffs.

Good shooters in the playoffs are going to exploit Mike Smith’s weakness and it’s going to be a lot harder to outscore our problems in the lower scoring playoffs and against good teams.

An injury could happen but there's a greater chance it doesn't.

The Flames would be taking a risk going into the playoffs with a struggling Smith but not bringing in someone else doesn't doom their chances like some are suggesting.

The only way Smith would play other than an injury is if Rittich gets pulled which if that happens means the game is most likely done anyway.

[Bingo]

Funny that people keep saying "Bennett's best came since ..." etc after that one.

Productive night with two goals and an assist, but far from his best game this season in how he played in my mind.

I'd put the New Year's Eve game and the Tampa game ahead of last night's performance. Great goal on the late powerplay for a guy that's been due all season, but hardly his best game of the season

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Funny that people keep saying "Bennett's best came since ..." etc after that one.

Productive night with two goals and an assist, but far from his best game this season in how he played in my mind.

I'd put the New Year's Eve game and the Tampa game ahead of last night's performance. Great goal on the late powerplay for a guy that's been due all season, but hardly his best game of the season

His line was not good at all even strength from what I saw. But can’t deny he made some nice plays on the PP.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Funny that people keep saying "Bennett's best came since ..." etc after that one.

Productive night with two goals and an assist, but far from his best game this season in how he played in my mind.

I'd put the New Year's Eve game and the Tampa game ahead of last night's performance. Great goal on the late powerplay for a guy that's been due all season, but hardly his best game of the season

He was really good in Colorado as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Phagoof]

40 points for Bennett would be a beautiful season, but then how much is he going to cost. 3.5?

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Phagoof

40 points for Bennett would be a beautiful season, but then how much is he going to cost. 3.5?

I'm not sure his point total really factors into anything. He will get qualified like he did coming off his ELC.

All of this is moot since I don't think anyone can see a scenario where Bennett gets protected in the Seattle expansion draft.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

I'm not sure his point total really factors into anything. He will get qualified like he did coming off his ELC.

All of this is moot since I don't think anyone can see a scenario where Bennett gets protected in the Seattle expansion draft.

You think they are going 4-4-1?

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I see this posted a lot, and I don't buy it. I mean, yes, players will get scouting reports on goalies that they face, but the game is usually too fast for even the best players to "target" specific areas with any consistency. This is not a special issue exclusive to Smith, and it is not easily resolved by adding a different goalie, who suffers from weaknesses in his game that may or may not be the same as Smith's.

Friedman brought up the fact that many players now hire shot coaches or attend shooting school, and practice their shooting skills all summer long. You bet that they're targeting certain areas these days.

[Itse]

What was the new look PP2 exactly?

(Didn't see the game, obviously.)

[AC]

Originally Posted by Itse

What was the new look PP2 exactly?

(Didn't see the game, obviously.)

Bennett - Ryan - Neal
Brodie - Andersson

[Flash Walken]

I'll take a good game from Bennett.

Agree with bingo, not his best though. I mean, whatever, doesn't matter, but you aren't out there twisting in the wind, bingo.

I don't think it is easy for janko playing with both Neal and Bennett, I like Ryan there more

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

You think they are going 4-4-1?

Yes. I think the Flames are in a similar position as Anaheim in the Vegas draft.

Johnny, Mony, Chucky, Lindholm.

Brodie, Hanafin, Andersson, Valimaki.

Rittich

Backs and Gio will need to waive NTC.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Yes. I think the Flames are in a similar position as Anaheim in the Vegas draft.

Johnny, Mony, Chucky, Lindholm.

Brodie, Hanafin, Andersson, Valimaki.

Rittich

I think they will pay a 2nd + a prospect young player to keep Bennett and or other player like Jankowski/killington. I also highly doubt they expose Gio, even at his age.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Yes. I think the Flames are in a similar position as Anaheim in the Vegas draft.

Johnny, Mony, Chucky, Lindholm.

Brodie, Hanafin, Andersson, Valimaki.

Rittich

Brodie?