Should the Flames fire Gulutzan?

[Inglewood Jack]

guys like Sutter, Tippett, Babcock, Hitchcock, Boudreau, Quenneville, etc. have been around forever as head coaches, and they pretty much are what they are nowadays. nobody will try to argue that Gully is anywhere near that league yet, but what I do like in the past season and a half are signs of learning and growth.

can he eventually become what we consider an elite coach, who knows. but I'll give the guy credit for working hard on his craft and trying to get better at it.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

I think the problem is Cameron, not GG. But GG doesn’t have the authority to fire Cameron as that was a BT hire. It wouldn’t surprise me if GG has some frustration with Cameron and both parties know there is nothing that GG can do.
Furthermore, it wouldn’t surprise me if Cameron knows this and as the more experienced guy, feels he should be at the helm.

Totally pulling this out of my ass... but I wonder how that relationship has been over the last 1.5 years.

GG could always change the responsibility of Cameron if he is under performing in a specific area. So you take away his PP duties and give them to another coach or take them on yourself. Or dictate the system that Cameron has to coach to.

So even if Cameron can't be fired GGs deployment of Cameron is GGs fault.

[midniteowl]

If GG doesn't have the authority to fire Cameron, couldn't he send him upstairs and bring Gélinas down?

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

If GG doesn't have the authority to fire Cameron, couldn't he send him upstairs and bring Gélinas down?

It's a weird situation. I have felt for awhile Cameron isn't doing GG any favors.
With the changes GG has made so far and the progress, it would be a shame if
the PP was the cause of a playoff exit. I could see that being a factor when playoff teams tend to tighten up. Still lots of time, anything can change, improve between now and then.

[EldrickOnIce]

PP is like most other parts of the Flames game - should have been producing better results for a while now.
Patience will pay off in results soon enough, in my opinion.

[Doc Hudson]

This thread is an over-reactive joke. Teams have ups and downs, if every team fired their coach during a down period there would be 30 coaching changes every season.

All this talk about "no system", "doesn't know what he is doing", "why is this player on that line" is total noise. Hopefully someone has said this, because the thread (in general) is terrible reading and completely uninformed.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

If GG doesn't have the authority to fire Cameron, couldn't he send him upstairs and bring Gélinas down?

Do people forget that the Flames had one of the best power plays in the entire League last season with Cameron and most of the same on-ice personnel? I am not remotely convinced that he is a problem.

I said it in another thread about the powerplay, but to my eye the biggest issue has been that the players are too stationary and don't move the puck quickly enough. I don't believe these are tactical issues so much as they have to do with player execution. It is understandable for a group that has struggled so mightily for the past several weeks on the powerplay to be second guessing and not executing. I think they need to—and will—work through it.

[Manhattanboy]

Flames have had power play opportunities to put games away. The lack of PP production this year has cost the team valuable points.

[Max Cow Disease]

I'm hopeful that the team's somewhat turning things around now, and have been skeptical that axing Gully is what will solve the team's woes in any meaningful way. We've seen the team play incredibly effective hockey at times during his tenure, and so much of what has ailed us has struck me as more of a "consistent execution" problem than a root issue with his quality as a coach. It's easy to say that it's his job as head coach to simply "get" them to play that way all the time, but that's part of the infamous process that Treliving constantly references and can take some time.

For me, the series against Anaheim last year was incredibly telling. We didn't look at all like the inexperienced, smallish squad that had lucked its way in to the playoffs under Hartley a couple of years prior, only to be manhandled by Anaheim in the 2nd round. We looked far more on par and at times were completely taking it to Anaheim it seemed, but were completely sold down the creek by more or less a single man in my mind - Brian Elliott. Part of this can be attributed to the young star players being a little older and more experienced of course, but the team simply seems to be playing, when they're on, a more sustainably viable brand of hockey than they did under the previous coach. If Smith's in net last year, we have a good chance to be in round two if you ask me.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Max Cow Disease

I'm hopeful that the team's somewhat turning things around now, and have been skeptical that axing Gully is what will solve the team's woes in any meaningful way. We've seen the team play incredibly effective hockey at times during his tenure, and so much of what has ailed us has struck me as more of a "consistent execution" problem than a root issue with his quality as a coach. It's easy to say that it's his job as head coach to simply "get" them to play that way all the time, but that's part of the infamous process that Treliving constantly references and can take some time.

For me, the series against Anaheim last year was incredibly telling. We didn't look at all like the inexperienced, smallish squad that had lucked its way in to the playoffs under Hartley a couple of years prior, only to be manhandled by Anaheim in the 2nd round. We looked far more on par and at times were completely taking it to Anaheim it seemed, but were completely sold down the creek by more or less a single man in my mind - Brian Elliott. Part of this can be attributed to the young star players being a little older and more experienced of course, but the team simply seems to be playing, when they're on, a more sustainably viable brand of hockey than they did under the previous coach. If Smith's in net last year, we have a good chance to be in round two if you ask me.

Elliott's game 3 performance was one of the biggest choke jobs i've seen take place on this team. Every shot at any angle was going in that 3rd period and then GG starts him in game 4 and he lets in that shot from just an absurd angle. In hindsight it's probably good he showed us that side of his play or we probably re-sign him and give the blues another pick. It's hard for me to blame an entire series on one player but holy hell Elliott was pure garbage.

[Corral]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Elliott's game 3 performance was one of the biggest choke jobs i've seen take place on this team. Every shot at any angle was going in that 3rd period and then GG starts him in game 4 and he lets in that shot from just an absurd angle. In hindsight it's probably good he showed us that side of his play or we probably re-sign him and give the blues another pick. It's hard for me to blame an entire series on one player but holy hell Elliott was pure garbage.

i know from your earlier posts you are too young to remember the early 90s - the team as a whole was a collective choke job between the 89-90 and 94-95 seasons. Much larger choke efforts than what we have seen of late. And against the Oilers in 91 and Canucks in 94 - just to rub salt in it.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Do people forget that the Flames had one of the best power plays in the entire League last season with Cameron and most of the same on-ice personnel? I am not remotely convinced that he is a problem.

I said it in another thread about the powerplay, but to my eye the biggest issue has been that the players are too stationary and don't move the puck quickly enough. I don't believe these are tactical issues so much as they have to do with player execution. It is understandable for a group that has struggled so mightily for the past several weeks on the powerplay to be second guessing and not executing. I think they need to—and will—work through it.

The Flames had their struggles for a big chunk of the year last year as well, but ended up as the 10th ranked PP unit. I'm not sure scraping into the top 10 qualifies them as "one of the best power plays in the league". The best units display consistency, and not lengthy sinkholes in competency like the Flames have, time and time again, shown under Cameron's leadership.

The PP is killing the Flames right now and has been since late November - this team would be 6-8 points higher in the standings if not for complete and utter incompetence with the man advantage. I'm inclined to blame Cameron as he has been the constant the last 2 seasons despite having a playoff caliber team to work with. A good coach would be able to turn the ship around and not continue to walk barefoot in the horse manure the rest of the year.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

As for Gulutzan, it's amazing what a difference a week can make, especially when the goalie starts playing really well and the top line catches fire. I give GG some credit for keeping this team from going on an extended losing streak when both of those things mentioned in the last sentence were not happening. I'll take .500 hockey when the team isn't playing anywhere near its best. What you can't afford is prolonged losing streaks. Go look at the snake thread and compare to last year. While this team has been working out the kinks, they've not lost many games back to back or had losing streaks longer than 3 games. That will always keep you in the hunt over the course of a very long season.

The very thing I pointed out in the snek thread. First stop the bleeding. Then you can start building. But if all your building is undone by a bad losing streak, it's really hard to get any momentum. (See E=NG.)

There _is_ more consistency. Sometimes hard to see, but it does seem to be improving. Does that mean that GG should stay? No. But it also doesn't mean he needs to go quite as quickly as some might want. That, to me will be determined by a few other things, which (presumably) GG is working on:

- in-game personnel management
- timeout usage (lack thereof IMNSHO at moments)
- assistant coaching - particularly in the PP
- continued consistency and evidence of buy-in by the team as a whole
- results, results, results. All of the above are useless without results. (back to E=NG on that score)

[Travis Munroe]

Originally Posted by Doc Hudson

This thread is an over-reactive joke. Teams have ups and downs, if every team fired their coach during a down period there would be 30 coaching changes every season.

All this talk about "no system", "doesn't know what he is doing", "why is this player on that line" is total noise. Hopefully someone has said this, because the thread (in general) is terrible reading and completely uninformed.

It is easy to come in on a 5 game win streak and post such a thing.

Many of these posts are 5 games ago where the flames were not looking great for a playoff spot. Outside of a 10 game winning streak last year (very unlikely scenario) and this current win streak of 5 that just puts the flames on the playoff bubble, the team has been awful under Glen. I know he takes too much heat, much of which should be directed at Cameron but we cant pretend this down period is some overreaction. It has been a season and a half of more downs than ups with a very talented team.

For the record, I want all of my thoughts to be shoved back at me when the flames are playing fantastic playoff hockey.

Can someone who watches systems and breakouts confirm that the last few weeks have had some big changes in terms of D men carrying the puck longer to open fwds compared to standing still forcing a breakout pass & Mike Smith being much more selective on playing the puck / he leaves it for his d to retrieve more.

[KipperFaNaTic]

Originally Posted by Doc Hudson

This thread is an over-reactive joke. Teams have ups and downs, if every team fired their coach during a down period there would be 30 coaching changes every season.

All this talk about "no system", "doesn't know what he is doing", "why is this player on that line" is total noise. Hopefully someone has said this, because the thread (in general) is terrible reading and completely uninformed.

Before the 5 game win streak, it was reasonable to look at firing the head coach. The team was greatly underachieving losing 9 of their last 13, had a struggling power play (still is), and looked fragile and unconfident.

You have the power of hindsight now to say "told you so", but at the time it was reasonable to look at GG. What if the flames lost 5 in a row. We would be saying that the firing was too late.

Don't get me wrong. I'm glad that GG wasn't fired after this 5 game win streak (and I voted yes), I just don't believe this thread was an overreaction.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by Realtor 1

It is easy to come in on a 5 game win streak and post such a thing.

Many of these posts are 5 games ago where the flames were not looking great for a playoff spot. Outside of a 10 game winning streak last year (very unlikely scenario) and this current win streak of 5 that just puts the flames on the playoff bubble, the team has been awful under Glen. I know he takes too much heat, much of which should be directed at Cameron but we cant pretend this down period is some overreaction. It has been a season and a half of more downs than ups with a very talented team.

For the record, I want all of my thoughts to be shoved back at me when the flames are playing fantastic playoff hockey.

Can someone who watches systems and breakouts confirm that the last few weeks have had some big changes in terms of D men carrying the puck longer to open fwds compared to standing still forcing a breakout pass & Mike Smith being much more selective on playing the puck / he leaves it for his d to retrieve more.

I would say watching this is accurate. You will also notice that the top line is not trying to force themselves to find a opening to carry it in. Even Johnny has been doing the dump in if there is no free lane avalible now. Opposing teamsdefense have been caught off guard a few times from that as the book on him is he likes to dangle.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by Realtor 1

It is easy to come in on a 5 game win streak and post such a thing.

Many of these posts are 5 games ago where the flames were not looking great for a playoff spot. Outside of a 10 game winning streak last year (very unlikely scenario) and this current win streak of 5 that just puts the flames on the playoff bubble, the team has been awful under Glen.

Conversely, if you selectively eliminate 15 losses the team has been great under Glen! With more ups than downs and a very talented team.

[Manhattanboy]

nm

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Realtor 1

It is easy to come in on a 5 game win streak and post such a thing.

Many of these posts are 5 games ago where the flames were not looking great for a playoff spot. Outside of a 10 game winning streak last year (very unlikely scenario) and this current win streak of 5 that just puts the flames on the playoff bubble, the team has been awful under Glen. I know he takes too much heat, much of which should be directed at Cameron but we cant pretend this down period is some overreaction. It has been a season and a half of more downs than ups with a very talented team...

This is such blithering nonsense. The team that made the playoffs last year and is trending in that same direction this season has not been "awful."

[Doc Hudson]

There is no difficulty in posting in a forum, regardless of the context of the message. You hit post, write some words, hit submit. What is hard is giving the professional hockey teams the benefit of the doubt that they may know what they are doing, and refraining from getting in a useless back and forth over it. You may not agree with them, but when the expression " shame-faced acknowledgement", or "he doesn't know what he is doing". I am turned away from threads because of it and get nothing out of doing it.

So I waited until they won 5 games to complain, because at now maybe some rational discussion about it can happen. It's not easier, it is more constructive.

We can all agree we want the flames are playing fantastic playoff hockey. Currently, I think they doing less thinking and more instinctive play. Backlund touched on it today talking with Ryan Leslie.

Or maybe they are just "playing well".

Originally Posted by Realtor 1

It is easy to come in on a 5 game win streak and post such a thing.

Many of these posts are 5 games ago where the flames were not looking great for a playoff spot. Outside of a 10 game winning streak last year (very unlikely scenario) and this current win streak of 5 that just puts the flames on the playoff bubble, the team has been awful under Glen. I know he takes too much heat, much of which should be directed at Cameron but we cant pretend this down period is some overreaction. It has been a season and a half of more downs than ups with a very talented team.

For the record, I want all of my thoughts to be shoved back at me when the flames are playing fantastic playoff hockey.

Can someone who watches systems and breakouts confirm that the last few weeks have had some big changes in terms of D men carrying the puck longer to open fwds compared to standing still forcing a breakout pass & Mike Smith being much more selective on playing the puck / he leaves it for his d to retrieve more.