UPDATE: NHLPA votes for further negotiations on 24-team return to play format

[djsFlames]

If all you have to contribute is "just call it a season already", save it. It's been posted at least fifty times in this thread already.

We get it. You're not on board, many have the exact same thoughts.

Those of us that would welcome it are gonna chat about it. So contribute to that discussion rather than reiterating the same thing that doesn't add anything.

If it can happen it probably will regardless of what any of us think.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

If all you have to contribute is "just call it a season already", save it. It's been posted at least fifty times in this thread already.

We get it. You're not on board, many have the exact same thoughts.

Those of us that would welcome it are gonna chat about it. So contribute to that discussion rather than reiterating the same thing that doesn't add anything.

If it can happen it probably will regardless of what any of us think.

TBH I think it's basic survival instinct. There is no safety net for this thing and so lifting restrictions before such a safety net exists can cause a fight or flight reaction I'm sure.

As an essential employee who has been leaving my house to work this whole time, it's not really scary to me for other people to start working but had I been quarantined this whole time, my perspective might have changed dramatically. In these uncertain times, I've been really stressed myself about other aspects, such as going to the store and if I were to post on the costco forum (does this exist?), I would definitely make a lot of posts that were considered toxic and unhelpful LOL.

[JD]

The notion that summer heat will curb the corona virus isn't really truth. It's been hotter than any Canadian and most American summers already here in the Middle East for a couple months and the numbers aren't declining.

If the virus is seasonal, it's for some other reason than weather.

[Itse]

I feel like there's way too much hand-wringing over the format and little talk of the actual problem: what about covid-19?

Odds for a player to catch covid-19 during this tournament are significant. Any reasonable quarantine rules would then suggest that those in immediate contact with the diagnosed player, which means everyone in the same dressing room, are also quarantined until test results come in. Sure it takes only a day, but what if that's a game day? Does the schedule have allowances for this?

The tests are also not 100%, and you have a fairly long symptomless period where you can still spread it to others. How often do you test players?

What if a team loses a whole top line or a top pairing? (They often tend to sit close to each other.)

How many players need to test positive before you have to quarantine the whole team for the 14 days you need to be sure. What if there's a new outbreak wave with new restrictions during the tournament?

I don't mind the tournament as such, hockey is hockey and hockey is good. But these are the issues why I'm sceptical. Just intuitively it doesn't seem like the odds are in favor of this tournament going through smoothly without covid-19 throwing another wrench in.

All that said, I guess it's feasible to test everyone before the tournaments starts and then essentially isolate the players and the team personnel during the tournament, with some allowances made for families. With money it's not impossible to arrange.

...but all it takes is one idiot or a bit of bad luck, and 24 teams with personnel is in the ballpark of a thousand people...

[getbak]

Killorn confirms to The Athletic that the Lightning were one of the two "no" votes: https://theathletic.com/1833050/2020...4-team-format/

“I brought the format to my team,” Killorn said via text Saturday night. “They didn’t feel it was fair that certain teams that probably wouldn’t have made the playoffs would have a chance to make the playoffs in a best-of-five series. My team also felt it was unfair that the teams with a bye would not be as well prepared for a playoff series as the teams that had already basically played a playoff series to get into the playoffs.

“This was not my opinion alone. As the PA rep I have a duty to represent the voice of my entire team. I don’t want people to think that we don’t want to play. Everyone on our team wants to play. In saying that, we are fine with the vote the PA took and we are ready with it going forward.”

There are also the same concerns we've heard before about being isolated away from their families for an extended period of time.

[transplant99]

It would be interesting to know what the individual vote looked like as opposed to a team by team vote.

80-20? 70-30?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by transplant99

It would be interesting to know what the individual vote looked like as opposed to a team by team vote.

80-20? 70-30?

I was thinking this too but then I presume teams have some latitude in how they cast their single vote. It's probably not a secret ballot by all the players on the team but more like a discussion followed by a show of hands.

It may be hard to ascertain who really felt strongly one way or the other.

It's interesting that the two dissenting teams highlighted the format as their reason, and then later mentioning safety. I believe that for the most part people from all walks of life want to return to work.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by JD

The notion that summer heat will curb the corona virus isn't really truth. It's been hotter than any Canadian and most American summers already here in the Middle East for a couple months and the numbers aren't declining.

If the virus is seasonal, it's for some other reason than weather.

Seasonality may have more to do with how our bodies respond to climate, than how the virus itself interacts with the environment.

I don’t know what that means for tropical regions though. Do they have ‘flu seasons’ at all? Or like their weather, is it just a fairly consistent state throughout the year?

You can’t really use evidence from places that don’t actually have seasons to debunk seasonality. Warmer weather than winter is just one aspect of seasonality - increased hours of sunlight (Vit D) may actually be far more important...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

So any idea on lineups.. who will be ready to play? Did I leave anyone out? Hamonic Hanifin Perreault were injured when hockey stopped.

Mangiapane Backlund Tkachuk
Gaudreau Monahan Lindholm
Lucic Ryan Dube
Bennett Jankowski Rieder

Rinaldo

Gio Brodie
Andersson Hannifin
Fobort Hamonic
Kylington Gustafsson Stone

Connor Schiefele Wheeler
Ehlers Eakins Laine
Copp Lowry Roslovic
Perreault Harkins Appleton

Shore Bourque

Morrissey De Melo
Kulikov Pionk
Beaulieu Poolman
Bietto Sbisa

Maybe this is the wrong thread but nobody wants to talk hockey. That would be a 4 alarm warning that running this tournament will be a disaster.

If people on CP are not interested in hockey, then basically no one at all in the whole world is interested in hockey.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by transplant99

It would be interesting to know what the individual vote looked like as opposed to a team by team vote.

80-20? 70-30?

Based on what some of the media have indicated, it sounds like it would have been a lot closer to 50-50.

[JD]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Seasonality may have more to do with how our bodies respond to climate, than how the virus itself interacts with the environment.

I don’t know what that means for tropical regions though. Do they have ‘flu seasons’ at all? Or like their weather, is it just a fairly consistent state throughout the year?

You can’t really use evidence from places that don’t actually have seasons to debunk seasonality. Warmer weather than winter is just one aspect of seasonality - increased hours of sunlight (Vit D) may actually be far more important...

Well all I'm saying is if you're hoping warmer weather and some vitamin D is all you're waiting for, you'll be in for a disappointment. We've had a good dose of both here and the virus persists. Just adding some perspective to a topic where I repeatedly see the hope that summer will help matters. I don't think it will. I'm happy to be wrong though.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Seasonality may have more to do with how our bodies respond to climate, than how the virus itself interacts with the environment.

I don’t know what that means for tropical regions though. Do they have ‘flu seasons’ at all? Or like their weather, is it just a fairly consistent state throughout the year?

You can’t really use evidence from places that don’t actually have seasons to debunk seasonality. Warmer weather than winter is just one aspect of seasonality - increased hours of sunlight (Vit D) may actually be far more important...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There is a lot of evidence that Vitamin D is the key to the summer thing.

Something like 95% of people infected have Vitamin D deficiency. Which is not saying much considering 70% of people in North America are deficient as is.

But, if the NHL is going to pull this off without infections and whatnot, they should probably try to outdoor as much stuff as possible.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by JD

Well all I'm saying is if you're hoping warmer weather and some vitamin D is all you're waiting for, you'll be in for a disappointment. We've had a good dose of both here and the virus persists. Just adding some perspective to a topic where I repeatedly see the hope that summer will help matters. I don't think it will. I'm happy to be wrong though.

It takes a long time to raise your actual Vitamin D levels in your blood.

A week or two of sunlight is not going to do much. People deficient and actually are trying to get their levels where they should be need months of supplements or injections.

Not trying to derail the thread. I just think that there is enough conclusive evidence to say that outdoor activities don't create much spread, and therefore the NHL would be wise to pick a hub city that allows all the media personalities, players, etc to spend as much time outdoor as they can.

[Matty81]

Nice to hear some players voted no based on integrity of the competition. There's no perfect answer here but 24 teams, byes and play ins is a joke. If you're drawing some artibrary line in the sand the team just outside could always argue they would have made it with the rest of the season being played. Team 25 could make that argument just as well as the jets in 17th.

So just draw the line at 16 based on winning percentage and maintain the integrity of the playoffs at least. Put the byes and play ins on a rocket and shoot that gimmicky #### into the sun. I wanna watch the hockey and honestly next winter this is still going to be going on so people need to find a way to function while managing risk but this is not a SCF.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Maybe this is the wrong thread but nobody wants to talk hockey. That would be a 4 alarm warning that running this tournament will be a disaster.


If people on CP are not interested in hockey, then basically no one at all in the whole world is interested in hockey.

Couple things there. Firstly, a good portion of CP has you on ignore for pretending to be a Flames fan to better troll the board as a Jets fan. And number two, this is a global pandemic that has a huge second wave coming to the US and very steep mountain to climb to get the play in and playoffs off the ground.


You're just out of touch as to where people's minds are at right now in regards to professional sports. People aren't avoiding line-up talk because **** hockey, otherwise they wouldn't be here discussing the possibility of a start up. How can you not understand that?



The second the NHL announced it was a go you'd see non stop Flames and hockey talk about every detail of the team and training/practice etc.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by JD

Well all I'm saying is if you're hoping warmer weather and some vitamin D is all you're waiting for, you'll be in for a disappointment. We've had a good dose of both here and the virus persists. Just adding some perspective to a topic where I repeatedly see the hope that summer will help matters. I don't think it will. I'm happy to be wrong though.

You're entirely missing my point. One would not expect any seasonal effect in places where there are no seasons. It's not that warm weather and vit D make you immune to COVID. But, deficiency in those may make you more susceptible.

It doesn't mean that people with consistent levels aren't susceptible...it's just one fewer variable for them.

[dammage79]

I'll watch the games if/when they happen. But there's still a pretty large mountain to climb with many obstacles.

Approval of format is arriving in Nepal to begin the trek to Basecamp 1. Still a lot of prep to do before the ascent run.

[dino7c]

A factor for me is this tourney will alter next season too...It's not "oh you don't like hockey? quit complaining"

Sounds like they will address the seeding issues though. As for "you will be watching" if this starts Aug. long weekend I can assure you I won't be, won't even have the option.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by getbak

Based on what some of the media have indicated, it sounds like it would have been a lot closer to 50-50.

Interesting, i havent done my rounds across the net reading stuff yet, but this would have been my guess going in. 60-40 type thing and that is based solely on what i had read leading into it all.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by dino7c

A factor for me is this tourney will alter next season too...It's not "oh you don't like hockey? quit complaining"

Sounds like they will address the seeding issues though. As for "you will be watching" if this starts Aug. long weekend I can assure you I won't be, won't even have the option.

Next season will be altered if this is playoff format moves forward or not.