2019 Blue Jays Season Thread

[bluejays]

Not Jays related but I read an interesting article about how involved the Astros were involved with McKinsey consulting, and the results-at-all-costs approach is/was the culture. I've worked with people from these consulting firms and I gotta say that this seems accurate. These guys are snake oil salesman, and no doubt they deserve everything that's coming to them by MLB.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

These are the guys that the Jays will have to eventually go after IMO, because the bigger name guys without as many question marks will look to sign in other locations.

It's either that or trade for pitching. But then you are giving up assets for pitchers that likely won't come with much team control left. Guys like Jon Gray, Corey Kluber or Chris Archer for example.

It's going to frustrate a large portion of the fan base, and they will claim that Rogers/Atkins aren't even trying to sign anyone big, but in the end the Jays will have to develop most of their (eventual) contending rotation on their own.

You're right about the frustrating part. I don't think Atkins and Shapiro are not trying but I also think they are being disingenuous when they say things like they have financial "flexibility" to reach into the upper tier of the FA market. It's just not going to happen with the Jays.

I also think it's pretty darn tough to assemble an MLB starting rotation through drafting and development. The Mets sort of did it but still traded for Wheeler and Syndergaard before they were in the MLB. Even the Rays supplemented their starting pitching by signing Morton as a FA last offseason which took from 90 to 96 wins. We know how the Yankees and Red Sox do business. The only guy on the Nats starting rotation they drafted was Strasburg. The Astros didn't draft any of their starting pitchers.

I think the only route for the Jays will again be trade. It's clear they don't have the appetite to lay down a ton of cash for an elite FA so they will be forced to give up assets.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

You're right about the frustrating part. I don't think Atkins and Shapiro are not trying but I also think they are being disingenuous when they say things like they have financial "flexibility" to reach into the upper tier of the FA market. It's just not going to happen with the Jays.

I also think it's pretty darn tough to assemble an MLB starting rotation through drafting and development. The Mets sort of did it but still traded for Wheeler and Syndergaard before they were in the MLB. Even the Rays supplemented their starting pitching by signing Morton as a FA last offseason which took from 90 to 96 wins. We know how the Yankees and Red Sox do business. The only guy on the Nats starting rotation they drafted was Strasburg. The Astros didn't draft any of their starting pitchers.

I think the only route for the Jays will again be trade. It's clear they don't have the appetite to lay down a ton of cash for an elite FA so they will be forced to give up assets.

Let's not forget that the last time the Jays were a legit contender their rotation wasn't very expensive, but it was still very effective. They didn't sign any big name free agents to build that rotation either.

They traded for Dickey (wasn't near an ace level pitcher here)
They traded for Buehrle
They traded for Price (just a half season)
They traded for Estrada
They traded for Happ
They drafted Hutchison
They drafted Stroman
They drafted Sanchez

Those are all the key contributing starting pitchers from the Jays two playoff seasons, none of them are jump off the page ACE starters, except Price who was here for only half a season.

As cool as it would be to have the Jays convince Cole and Strasburg to sign in TO (and shell out the $$ to do so) it's not a necessity for building a good rotation IMO.

[looooob]

random baseball news- will post here


Veterans committee adds Ted Simmons (under-rated catcher) and Marvin Miller to the HOF. somehow Lou Whitaker misses out again despite the voting in of his nearly identical double play combo mate Trammell a few years ago

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Let's not forget that the last time the Jays were a legit contender their rotation wasn't very expensive, but it was still very effective. They didn't sign any big name free agents to build that rotation either.

They traded for Dickey (wasn't near an ace level pitcher here)
They traded for Buehrle
They traded for Price (just a half season)
They traded for Estrada
They traded for Happ
They drafted Hutchison
They drafted Stroman
They drafted Sanchez

Those are all the key contributing starting pitchers from the Jays two playoff seasons, none of them are jump off the page ACE starters, except Price who was here for only half a season.

As cool as it would be to have the Jays convince Cole and Strasburg to sign in TO (and shell out the $$ to do so) it's not a necessity for building a good rotation IMO.

Thanks for the response. I was really only commenting on you saying that the Jays have to draft and develop their rotation. I just think that would be exceedingly challenging and you need to supplement the rotation through trades and FA signings.

And not saying the Jays need to get Cole. But the Wheelers, Odorizzis, Pinedas of the world are exactly what the Jays need at the moment and well within their price range. I agree that you don't necessarily need an ace to have a good rotation, but I haven't seen an MLB team win a championship in a long time without an ace.

[GirlySports]

Strasburg to stay with Nationals 7 years $245 mil

It's kinda funny that "Strasburg becomes highest paid pitcher in 2020" would have been less surprising 10 years ago than today.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Strasburg to stay with Nationals 7 years $245 mil

It's kinda funny that "Strasburg becomes highest paid pitcher in 2020" would have been less surprising 10 years ago than today.

He'll only be such until Cole signs.

Jays should hurry up and sign someone (Ryu)... c'mon do something already. I never entertained the possibility of Cole or Strasberg but they need folk to throw the ball and the Ryu/Kerchel tier of pitcher is well within their means to go out and get... so go out and get one. Right Now.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Parallex

He'll only be such until Cole signs.

Jays should hurry up and sign someone (Ryu)... c'mon do something already. I never entertained the possibility of Cole or Strasberg but they need folk to throw the ball and the Ryu/Kerchel tier of pitcher is well within their means to go out and get... so go out and get one. Right Now.

Even those guys probably aren't signing with the Jays, not unless it's a ridiculous over payment.

Ryu will probably sign back with the Dodgers after Cole picks his landing spot (either Angels or Yankees IMO).

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Even those guys probably aren't signing with the Jays, not unless it's a ridiculous over payment.

Ryu will probably sign back with the Dodgers after Cole picks his landing spot (either Angels or Yankees IMO).

Ryu is a Boras client... he'll sign where the biggest $$ number is.

Yes the Jays will likely have to overpay but Ryu/Kerchel (I'd prefer Ryu) won't need a gross amount of term so #### it... do the modest overpay it'll take for the 2 or 3 years and just get a guy.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Ryu is a Boras client... he'll sign where the biggest $$ number is.

Yes the Jays will likely have to overpay but Ryu/Kerchel (I'd prefer Ryu) won't need a gross amount of term so #### it... do the modest overpay it'll take for the 2 or 3 years and just get a guy.

I hope they do it too. I still think the Jays will have to continue to dig through the bargain bin looking for the next Estrada/Happ type of guy in free agency.

[flamingred89]

Rumours around EE and Smoak being on the Jays radar. I think one of them would look great in a Jays uniform again. And if tsutsugo doesn’t work out, why not both? Maybe get EE for around 10 and smoak around 5. It Could be a good stop gap for a year or two until they develop someone from within(or a stronger FA market). Plus the veteran leadership, one spanish, one English, would be invaluable I think.

[Roof-Daddy]

I've been back and forth on Smoak all year.

I think he was very unlucky with the bat last season, and could easily bring a lot of value next season to whoever signs him. He's so damn slow though, it's almost comical.

EE on a cheap 1 year deal wouldn't be too bad either I suppose. I think the Jays want to rotate position players through the DH quite a bit this year though.

[JBR]

NY Post suggesting the Yanks are looking to move J.A. Happ to shed a bit of salary for a Cole deal. The Score reporting the Jays are looking at a Happ reunion.

I wouldn't expect this to be completed until if and when the Yankees get Cole signed.

[Roof-Daddy]

Haha.

Jays can't get anybody to sign with them, so they are looking to bring back some familiar faces to keep a portion of the fan base appeased?

They better get some sort of sweetener if they deal for Happ and his contract. He was not very good last year.

[SuperMatt18]

I'm not overly surprised that the Jays can't get a free agent to sign.

- They are not a contender
- Old Stadium with turf
- Tough Division for Pitchers Stats
- Higher Taxes

Plus unlike the Raptors who have built a strong reputation, and who can pull from a more international free agent base, the Raptors don't necessarily have that with what appear to be mostly american free agents this year.

And I'm not sure paying an extra $2-3M a year, or an extra year of term, to get a mid-tier free agent to sign with them at this stage is a great idea. Maybe a year or two for now when the window is closer to opening but not now.

It's possible that contract is bad in a year or two and just takes up $$$ from a guy that could actually help in the window they need to contend in.

[JBR]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Haha.

Jays can't get anybody to sign with them, so they are looking to bring back some familiar faces to keep a portion of the fan base appeased?

They better get some sort of sweetener if they deal for Happ and his contract. He was not very good last year.

Cashman could've thrown in Ellsbury a few weeks ago. Not an option now..

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by JBR

Cashman could've thrown in Ellsbury a few weeks ago. Not an option now..

I have no faith in Atkins to get anything of value out of Cashman.

Didi Gregorious signs with the Phillies.

[bluejays]

If getting SP's is a priority, I wonder how difficult it'd be to move the fences back to eliminate the bullpens? At least it'd be a sweetener for pitchers considering signing here to pad their stats a little, while also putting more pressure on opposing teams to have better fielders. I dunno. Seems pretty simple to me.

[flamingred89]

Cole agrees to a 9 year/$324 million contract with the Yankees. Wowza. That’s huge.

[N-E-B]

I really wanted him in Anaheim. This just makes me hate the Yankees even more.