Building Permit Question

[keenan87]

Hey All,

I live in a condo and want to create an opening in a wall that may be load bearing. More of a rectangular hole in the middle of the wall that will allow some sunlight into the kitchen (wall is between kitchen and living room).

My condo requires us to get a building permit if required and get approval if any structural changes are being made.

My question is, do I need a permit for this? Will need to find a contractor who may need to get rid of some studs in the middle to create the opening and put in a beam. The City of Calgary says I need a permit if I am removing the load bearing wall but it doesn't mention cutting into it.

Any recommendations for contractors on CP who may be able to do the job?

[tipenmat]

I did something similar but more major (i.e. move a wall a few feet to increase a room's size)
My job required a city permit and to get approval I had to get an engineer to provide a certificate/letter showing that the reno was not going to cause structural issues ($500ish a few years ago) After I got this, i used that engineer letter and the Reno drawing to get the permit from the city.
Sometimes the contractor might do this for you but they will charge you a premium.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Hey All,

I live in a condo and want to create an opening in a wall that may be load bearing. More of a rectangular hole in the middle of the wall that will allow some sunlight into the kitchen (wall is between kitchen and living room).

My condo requires us to get a building permit if required and get approval if any structural changes are being made.

My question is, do I need a permit for this? Will need to find a contractor who may need to get rid of some studs in the middle to create the opening and put in a beam. The City of Calgary says I need a permit if I am removing the load bearing wall but it doesn't mention cutting into it.

Any recommendations for contractors on CP who may be able to do the job?

I'd definitely get an structural engineer to have a look if the condo board doesn't have as built drawings (which should identify whether you are dealing with structure).

In a tower, it ought to be <relatively> easy to know as it would be concrete and the partition walls would be framed. A wood condo would be a little more difficult to tell without the structural drawings.

cutting a hole in a load bearing wall would compromise the structural integrity, imo, unless a lintel is added, but then you may need additional supports for that lintel on either side of the opening...

[topfiverecords]

What’s the structure of the building? Wood frame or concrete? What year of construction?

Is there a sink or stove/hood on the wall you want to open up?

Prepare for the possibility of electrical conduit, plumbing vent stacks, etc running through the area.

[You Need a Thneed]

As others have asked, type of building (storeys, size)? Structure of building (wood framed or concrete)?, etc.

Having built condo/ apartment buildings, if there is a wall, there is very likely base building services (electrical/mechanical) inside that wall that can’t be moved, without screwing a lot of other things up.

Also, any structural work requires a building permit. Any structural work in a condo should not be remotely considered without a structural engineer’s stamp, AND full authorization in writing from the condo (who should have reviewed very specific and detailed plans).

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

What’s the structure of the building? Wood frame or concrete? What year of construction?

Is there a sink or stove/hood on the wall you want to open up?

Prepare for the possibility of electrical conduit, plumbing vent stacks, etc running through the area.

The building is early 1980s and wood framed. Only an electrical outlet on the entire wall. Its 5 storeys high and I am on the fourth floor.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

As others have asked, type of building (storeys, size)? Structure of building (wood framed or concrete)?, etc.

Having built condo/ apartment buildings, if there is a wall, there is very likely base building services (electrical/mechanical) inside that wall that can’t be moved, without screwing a lot of other things up.

Also, any structural work requires a building permit. Any structural work in a condo should not be remotely considered without a structural engineer’s stamp, AND full authorization in writing from the condo (who should have reviewed very specific and detailed plans).

Thanks so much for your input. Do you think a permit is required even if I am only cutting into just the drywall? My other option is to simply cut between the studs and create smaller holes.

This way I am impacting only impacting drywall and doing nothing to the wood studs. Unless drywall is also considered structural?

I also plan on getting this work done by a licensed professional.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Thanks so much for your input. Do you think a permit is required even if I am only cutting into just the drywall? My other option is to simply cut between the studs and create smaller holes.

This way I am impacting only impacting drywall and doing nothing to the wood studs. Unless drywall is also considered structural?

I also plan on getting this work done by a licensed professional.

Drywall isn't structural (but could be fire rated or has a sheer wall behind it)...but if you do it, you want to do it right - a big opening is better than slots and punching through slots means finishing drywall returns every 406mm which seems like a lot of taping/muddng... it might we worthwhile probing the top, near the ceiling to see what kind of header is there...if its doubled or a beam/lintel, the wall is probably structural...if its just a single stud, its probably partition...

definitely would get at least a contractor to have a look, if not a structural engineer...

the city's website is quite helpful for permit questions...i use it lots if i am too lazy to search through bylaws or building codes:

https://www.calgary.ca/pda/pd/permit...it-search.html

a pop up chat should be on the bottom right of the page...it can be a crap shoot as it depends on the experience of the agent, but its a good place to start.

[You Need a Thneed]

Just because you only see an outlet on the wall, doesn’t mean that nothing else is in the wall. The condo board should have plans for the building that can tell you what’s inside the wall.

I wouldn’t even cut drywall before asking that question.

Walls are often there because they need to be there.

[keenan87]

Thanks so much for all the great responses, really appreciate it!

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Just because you only see an outlet on the wall, doesn’t mean that nothing else is in the wall. The condo board should have plans for the building that can tell you what’s inside the wall.

I wouldn’t even cut drywall before asking that question.

Walls are often there because they need to be there.

Except for the 80s caveat that Architects were terrible in that time period and closed in kitchens were common. So the wall was put there for minimal reason at first, but then the mechanical engineers usually took it over and now it’s there for (probably) a reason.

[bc-chris]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Just because you only see an outlet on the wall, doesn’t mean that nothing else is in the wall. The condo board should have plans for the building that can tell you what’s inside the wall.

I wouldn’t even cut drywall before asking that question.

Walls are often there because they need to be there.

hey keenan


how tall are your baseboards? you could pop the baseboard off the wall and then cut into the drywall there to see what is behind it. put the drywall cutouts back and toss the baseboards back on and then you don't even need to mud!!


this only really helps if stuff is spanning the full height of the wall though (like vents, plumbing, electrical,etc.)

[Ducay]

Agree with the suggestion to do some discovery work to see what is in the wall.

Assuming its a hollow wall - no permit would likely be needed for drywall-only work (fire rated would be between units on all sides), but then you're getting a likely `12" wide opening between studs when all is said and done....a lot of work/finishing for a small hole. Seems like a marginal gain for a lot of effort. Better off going whole hog on the wall and spending the $ on an engineer.