Irving....not a great year but a stellar junior career

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by Freeway

It's going to be neat seeing how Irving transitions to the AHL next season (and which goalie the Flames decide to tandem him with).

I think the flames may trade away a goalie. Wonder what the going rate for a keetley or lelande is. They were 5th rounders but now 2 years down the road and not bust yet. But not often do you see goalie prospects traded (no value or too valuable?)

[icarus]

Well just the other day we saw three goalie prospects traded (Leneveau, Montoya, and Smith)...

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

I think the flames may trade away a goalie. Wonder what the going rate for a keetley or lelande is. They were 5th rounders but now 2 years down the road and not bust yet. But not often do you see goalie prospects traded (no value or too valuable?)

I think no value.

Huet went for a second, and Anaheim couldn't even get a sack of turnips for Bryzgalov.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

I think no value.

Huet went for a second, and Anaheim couldn't even get a sack of turnips for Bryzgalov.

I think the point in drafting and developing quality goaltending is that it is still a worthwhile endeavor. Goaltending is never a problem unless you don't have it.

[Crispy's Critter]

nm

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

I think the point in drafting and developing quality goaltending is that it is still a worthwhile endeavor. Goaltending is never a problem unless you don't have it.

Oh for sure. Especially if you can draft a guy who turns into a "top" NHL goaltender.

It is still worth stocking up on depth as every year there are a few NHL teams that end up playing their third stringer due to injuries, but they aren't great trading chips.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Oh for sure. Especially if you can draft a guy who turns into a "top" NHL goaltender.

It is still worth stocking up on depth as every year there are a few NHL teams that end up playing their third stringer due to injuries, but they aren't great trading chips.

Yeah, really what do goalies tend to go for in trades? Usually not a whole lot. Even Vokun and Toskala this past off season didn't garner a kings ransom or anything and these were proven starters. Especially nowadays that teams are going with that one guy for 65 to 75 games a year. It's an important position...but not one that you get rich by peddling off your surplus pieces to address other needs.

[Freeway]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

I think the flames may trade away a goalie. Wonder what the going rate for a keetley or lelande is. They were 5th rounders but now 2 years down the road and not bust yet. But not often do you see goalie prospects traded (no value or too valuable?)

The way I see it?

McElhinney re-signs. Joseph retires. Krahn walks. Irving takes a spot in the QC, McE returns to Calgary.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Freeway

The way I see it?

McElhinney re-signs. Joseph retires. Krahn walks. Irving takes a spot in the QC, McE returns to Calgary.

Yep, it looks like the end of the road for Krahn and the Flames. I'm not to sure about Joseph though. It seems like the guy still wants to play and he hasn't lost it yet.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Yeah, really what do goalies tend to go for in trades? Usually not a whole lot. Even Vokun and Toskala this past off season didn't garner a kings ransom or anything and these were proven starters. Especially nowadays that teams are going with that one guy for 65 to 75 games a year. It's an important position...but not one that you get rich by peddling off your surplus pieces to address other needs.

It's a strange thing and something that I don't understand in the least. You look around the league and see a number of teams who have struggled to reach their potential primarily because of goaltending - Ottawa, Tampa Bay, Columbus (until the emergency of Leclaire), Toronto.

These are teams that have been looking for a legitimate #1 for so long, and yet the trade market for goalies is poor - both in terms if established starters and prospects.

I don't get it.

[Sylvanfan]

Well I think teams know that there isn't a whole lot of places for a surplus goalie to go so no one really rushes out to go after the other guys tender. Contract limitations also play a part in this I think too. No team wants to be spending like 6 or 7 of their pro contracts on a position where only 1 guy really fills the job.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

It's a strange thing and something that I don't understand in the least. You look around the league and see a number of teams who have struggled to reach their potential primarily because of goaltending - Ottawa, Tampa Bay, Columbus (until the emergency of Leclaire), Toronto.

These are teams that have been looking for a legitimate #1 for so long, and yet the trade market for goalies is poor - both in terms if established starters and prospects.

I don't get it.

I think it is strange too. And unlike a forward, it takes a little longer.....it is tougher to tell what kind of goalie you get in the draft. A couple years adds value as the visibility on future upside is more obvious. I guess this is true with skaters too.

I think a goalie who has been playing in the system for a couple years and has shown consistent progression (ala Keetley) should be worth more now than when he was drafted....ie more than a 5th rounder. But it doesn't seem to be the case.

You think back on kipper's trade.....we paid a pretty heavy price in a 2nd rounder for a 3rd string goalie that hadn't proved himself yet compared to what Huet just went for.

[icarus]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

It's a strange thing and something that I don't understand in the least. You look around the league and see a number of teams who have struggled to reach their potential primarily because of goaltending - Ottawa, Tampa Bay, Columbus (until the emergency of Leclaire), Toronto.

These are teams that have been looking for a legitimate #1 for so long, and yet the trade market for goalies is poor - both in terms if established starters and prospects.

I don't get it.

Well Toronto did get an erstwhile #1 goalie (and Calder winner) in Raycroft for a bluechip G prospect in Rask...

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

It's a strange thing and something that I don't understand in the least. You look around the league and see a number of teams who have struggled to reach their potential primarily because of goaltending - Ottawa, Tampa Bay, Columbus (until the emergency of Leclaire), Toronto.

These are teams that have been looking for a legitimate #1 for so long, and yet the trade market for goalies is poor - both in terms if established starters and prospects.

I don't get it.

I think it's because goalies for the most part aren't consistent.

Look at the leaders in scoring for 03-04 in the differing categories of goals, assists, and points. They all remain pretty good players even if some have slipped a bit due to age or injury.

Then look at the goalies in Save %, GAA, and shutouts. You see more then a few guys that aren't even in the league(Aebischer), or hanging on by a thread(Weekes)although they should still be in the prime of their career.

With the exception of an elite few guys like Brodeur, Luongo, and others, the rest are sort of interchangeable, and there are way too many similarily talented goaltenders for too few spots.

I'd imagine most GM's aren't really "goalie guys" either so they are probably less likely to take gambles on things they don't entirely understand. That's assuming goalies can be understood anyways.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Oh for sure. Especially if you can draft a guy who turns into a "top" NHL goaltender.

It is still worth stocking up on depth as every year there are a few NHL teams that end up playing their third stringer due to injuries, but they aren't great trading chips.

Well, you don't draft 'em just to trade 'em.

Obviously you keep the best one and whatever happens to the others in a secondary concern.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Well, you don't draft 'em just to trade 'em.

Nobody said you did.

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Even Vokun and Toskala this past off season didn't garner a kings ransom or anything and these were proven starters. Especially nowadays that teams are going with that one guy for 65 to 75 games a year. It's an important position...but not one that you get rich by peddling off your surplus pieces to address other needs.

Syl,

I know what your position is, yet those two I think kinda did garner a hefty return, ask florida this year; Cats are trying not to be the east's Coilers and we know Burke is laughing all the way to the podium to draft another quality player for disneyland. Unless Martin's boy's get real hot real quick then Dave Poille(one of my favs) will doing the Brian Burke in a quality draft year-especially for highend players. Fataing parity, something needs to be done to fix the schedule and points system, how many teams will have above or near five hundred records and be picking in the top ten? Ish, how come this type of scenario never played out for the flames' favour when they sucked in the mid 90s. The poor laffs, didn't do that bad in that they got rid of a couple of high picks last year which wasn't considered to be the deepest years of incoming amateur talent and yielded a recently turned hot Toskala.

Bottom line in the new cap NHL is that the draft choices will become more of a premium for teams looking to round out their rosters with younger, cheaper, talent. Having depth at any of the important positions in the NHL is a boon. You should feel happy to be in the position that San Jose was with Nabby, Kipper and Toskala. Wow, talk about depth.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Ziggy Lidstrom

Unless Martin's boy's get real hot real quick then Dan Poille(one of my favs) will doing the Brian Burke in a quality draft year-especially for highend players.

Did Dan Poille take over for David Poile in Nashville?

Odd to have two guys with such similar names!

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

Originally Posted by moon

Did Dan Poille take over for David Poile in Nashville?

Odd to have two guys with such similar names!

Whoops, I'll edit that. I got confused with Dan Boyle for some reason. Dave is much better than Dan Poile.