[Trade] Elias Lindholm + Noah Hanifin to Flames for D. Hamilton, Micheal Ferland, & Adam Fox

[burnitdown]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Pretty easy to summarize the following;

Hamilton is elite at shot generation and shot suppression, but Giordano has almost the identical metrics which has the obvious question of who is helping who, or are they equally dominant?

Outside of that Hamilton is a second tier guy for entries, exits and defending the rush ...

Hanifin is a wizard at entries and exits and doesn't appear to give up as much as Hamilton on the rush, but pales when compared in shot generation and suppression though Hanifin looks pretty good from a defensive standpoint as well.

Do these charts factor in quality of competition and zone starts though? Dougie and Gio were playing tough minutes while Hanifin played a very sheltered role in Carolina last year. Makes it a little hard to compare as if Hanifin was playing #1 lines, his zone entries/exits probably wouldn't be as good??

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Bet you Lindholm/Hanifin score more than Ferland and Dougie.

I don't know about that, but I would bet that the Flames forwards as a group and their defensemen as a group will score more than last year. Irrespective of the individual performance comparisons between Lindholm/Hanifin and Ferland/Hamilton I am pretty comfortable in believing that the Flames are much better off after this trade than they were before it.

[FlamesFanTrev]

Originally Posted by PugnaciousIntern

Perhaps Johnny won’t need to skate the puck in on the PP 99% of the time anymore

You mean the bump back to Johnny, who skates it over the line, button hooks back, and then everyone stands still and passes it around the outside? No man, I know it hasn't worked for the last 2 years, but we should stick with that, it's due to progress back to the mean at some point. Lol

I felt like I was on crazy pills, seeing that a half dozen times a game. It was kinda like they didn't have a second set play for zone entries on the PP (or at 5v5 for that matter). I actually thought they were better off flipping it in and fighting for it. It was brutal.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by PugnaciousIntern

I’m definitely warming up to this trade. Did not realize that Hanifin had these attributes. Adding Lindholm into the mix certainly makes me happy.

Our team needs more goals and losing Hamilton’s and Ferland’s goals will hurt. There’s no denying that.

I'd say the team's more pressing issue is keeping the puck out of their net. And this trade helps that.

[CaptainCrunch]

I'm still really happy with this trade and it solves some serious issues that we had last year.

So the only thing that we need to know is

Spoiler!

[Sylvanfan]

I don't know if the trade will make the Flames better this coming year. I may not have been a huge Hamilton fan, but the guy was a good player, and I don't think Hanifan will replace what he offered this coming season.

What it did do was allow the Flames to potentially secure 12-13 years of contractual service from two upper roster players for what likely will be an AAV increase of about 2 million per year this coming year, and keep that number fixed for 5 more years. Whereas before this deal you only had certainty on that cost for one more year, and were looking at a huge increase by year 4.

This deal bought some time, and that's valuable.

[AC]

Tyler Dellow posted the following charts that apparently indicate Giordano and Hamilton had some of the hardest matchups last year, while Hanifin was the most sheltered Dman in the entire league.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1029099147121623041

Not sure what this means ultimately compared to all his other advanced stats, but maybe some cause for concern? Or do the stats suggest he can easily handle tougher matchups?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by AC

Tyler Dellow posted the following charts that apparently indicate Giordano and Hamilton had some of the hardest matchups last year, while Hanifin was the most sheltered Dman in the entire league.

Not sure what this means ultimately compared to all his other advanced stats, but maybe some cause for concern? Or do the stats suggest he can easily handle tougher matchups?

Tyler Dellow is the paragon of journalistic integrity, especially when it comes to the Flames.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Tyler Dellow is the paragon of journalistic integrity, especially when it comes to the Flames.

I don't think there's any doubt he was sheltered last year, especially in the first half.

But both players have questions.

Can Hanifin handle the drop in sheltering?
Which of Hamilton or Giordano are going to miss each other the most?

[Azhouse]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Which of Hamilton or Giordano are going to miss each other the most?

I am pretty sure we all know the answer to this one.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I don't think there's any doubt he was sheltered last year, especially in the first half.

But both players have questions.

Can Hanifin handle the drop in sheltering?
Which of Hamilton or Giordano are going to miss each other the most?

Sheltering such a young defenseman, even one with high potential, only makes sense. No one thought we were getting a finished product.

But maybe a worthwhile point in negotiations.

Frankly part of me hopes Hanifin has no interest in a long term deal because he wants to show he can be so much better.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Yep, more bullets in the chamber led to more hits on draft picks, good point. Unlike that idiot Flashwalken who believes teams should put more bullets in the chamber to up the odds of uncovering NHL stars and depth.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Come on, you're a better poster than that.

Look, it is a given that draft picks are where assets are acquired, and more picks means more assets. It is also a given that a team has to draft well in order to be successful (though there is a lot more luck in that than most people want to admit). And it is a given that an organization needs to do a good job with development of their players.

Are you sure you're not thinking of another poster? That post was right in the same gutter as everything else I post.

[SofaProfessor]

Originally Posted by AC

Tyler Dellow posted the following charts that apparently indicate Giordano and Hamilton had some of the hardest matchups last year, while Hanifin was the most sheltered Dman in the entire league.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1029099147121623041

Not sure what this means ultimately compared to all his other advanced stats, but maybe some cause for concern? Or do the stats suggest he can easily handle tougher matchups?

The list of sheltered guys is such a mixed bag. The guys that get the hard minutes are all pretty much really solid players. Ignoring age and salary I would love to see most of those guys on the Flames any day.

The second list has elite offensive guys like Burns, young players, and then some bad players. So, I guess, why is Hanifin on that list? Was he getting sheltered minutes because he was young? Was he relied on for more offense? Carolina has a great defensive corps, was he just pushed into a sheltered role by virtue of talent ahead of him? Or, is he just unable to handle his defensive responsibilities?

Maybe it's a combination of all of the above. Maybe the stats don't give a great look at the strategy of building a lineup. I guess we will find out. I just noticed immediately that you could draw parallels between much of the first list in that Tweet and the second list was such a wild mixture of players that maybe suggests there could be a million reasons you want to give a guy "sheltered" minutes.

[DAN0383]

Any updates on where the negotiations with Hanifin are?

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by DAN0383

Any updates on where the negotiations with Hanifin are?

Incomplete.

[Sylvanfan]

Isn't Dellow part of that group who's main objective for using advanced stats was to prove that the Oilers are unlucky and that they're better than they really are. Ty Conklin's ES save percentage is better than Brodeur's hence he's a better goaltender.

[Erick Estrada]

Is it really any surprise a 21 year old defenseman would receive sheltered minutes in the NHL? It's not like Hanafin will be counted on to replace Hamilton on the 1st pairing. He's going to be in the 2nd pairing playing with a low risk partner in Hamonic. I just hope Flames fans have more patience with this guy than they have shown with other young players as he's probably going to have some tough nights.

[devo22]

Hamilton was extremely sheltered at 21 too. Heck, Hartley also sheltered him a great deal in Dougies first season in Calgary from what I remember.

Nothing to see here, really. I'm surely not alone in believing that Gio was the driving force on that first pairing, and I'm sure he'll get Brodie going again too. As for Hanifin, we have the luxury to shelter him for a bit as well if necessary. Gio, Brodie and Hamonic can all play heavy minutes. It's not like anybody expects Hanifin to directly replace Dougie, right?

[Bingo]

The one thing you can't take away from either Giordano or Hamilton is the suppression and counting stats. We can argue who is driving who, but the bottom line is a lot of minutes with success.

You can't just put any old player there and have that happen.

Hamilton has played six years, and for four of the six he's had one of Chara or Giordano as his partner which says two things; 1) he's had some help 2) he's been good enough to play with the best and/or is the best

All told Giordano for 2435 minutes and Chara for 1593 for a total of 4029. The other partners with 50 or more minutes total 2653 minutes with Seidenberg and Russell being the most frequent partners.

His CF% with the big two is 56.8%, with others 51.3%

The kid can play.

[Flames_F.T.W]

Originally Posted by DAN0383

Any updates on where the negotiations with Hanifin are?

Yeah, I'm starting to get a little antsy. Hopefully a long term deal for a team friendly number gets announced soon!