Westworld: New original HBO series

[gottabekd]

Originally Posted by cDnStealth

The one thing that I cannot reconcile with the William is the MiB theory is last week the MiB told Teddy that he never saw the hosts as alive until he witnessed Maeve grieving over her dead child. Just look at this William dude. Can anyone here can say he doesn't see Dolores as alive? For a long time now I was thinking the MiB was Logan but he has brown eyes.

Yea, that really stood out to me too. Unfortunately there are some holes in the MIB=William theory, and until it is 100% confirmed, we don't know if they are just sloppy script holes (possibly created when HBO forced them to rewrite the end of the season), or if the script is just really clever with its misdirection.

At this point I'm willing to forgive a little sloppiness over just trying to mess with viewers for the sake of it.

[badradio]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

Oh, and since they keep refusing to show us for sure the Elsie is dead, I'm going to assume that she's still alive. Ford having Bernard kill her never made a lot of sense, since she was helping thwart actions by the board that were going against Ford. I could definitely see this remaining a mystery past the end of this season though...

My thoughts as well... unless the whole "pirate signal" was a ploy by Ford to throw the board off... but that would mean Theresa was in on it and a Host as well... I'm thinking Ford might bring Elsie on as an heir to his empire and perhaps work with him to transfer his being to a host when his physical body starts failing. I'm thinking the host being built under Fords "house in the woods" could be Ford himself... or Elsie if she's dead...

No piano music this week :/

[getbak]

Originally Posted by cDnStealth

The one thing that I cannot reconcile with the William is the MiB theory is last week the MiB told Teddy that he never saw the hosts as alive until he witnessed Maeve grieving over her dead child. Just look at this William dude. Can anyone here can say he doesn't see Dolores as alive? For a long time now I was thinking the MiB was Logan but he has brown eyes.

That's not exactly what he says...

"And then, something miraculous happened. In all my years coming here, I had never seen anything like it."

Long pause as we see Maeve carrying her daughter out of the house.

"She was alive, truly alive, if only for a moment."

That doesn't really contradict anything we've seen between William and Dolores.

If the MIB is William, he has spent the last 30 years seeing Dolores and all the other hosts play out their pre-programmed loops repeatedly, always to get reset at the end. Whatever he thought he had with Dolores will get wiped out and overwritten and she'll just go back to dropping that damned can every day to get picked up by Teddy or some other random tourist.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

I'm not sure MiB/William really rapes Delores when he drags her into the barn. He says it's time to get reacquainted, and they imply he means to rape her when he pulls out his knife, but I don't think MiB/William is really that far gone. He did really care for Delores in the past. I think he kick started her awakening in the barn somehow, but not by raping her, which shouldn't kick start anything, since that's been her loop for 30 years already.

I didn't think of this but your probably right.

His wife has just died and he is looking for the real Delores he met. So he wouldn't rape her to do it. Or he can't find the real Delores in there so treats her like the robot she is. I like your idea better though but if he finds Delores does he go on the quest for the maze?

The Logan MIB theory I don't think holds up as his wife has never been introduced and what does he care about the Androids becoming human. I figure William kills Logan in the finale to complete his turn into the MIB and fit with the story his daughter said about him

In need to rewatch the show and see my theory of an Android in every meaningful scene holds up. Basically we are told the story from the Androids point of view so if there are scenes without an android protagonist then one of the players in the scene must be an android.

It definitely explains Delores the best and the Logan/William plot line is an extended Delores flashback as she goes to the church post MIB knife attack

[FlameOn]

Bernard can't be dead can he? Won't Maeve just get Felix to fix him up? Backdoor will be removed for Maeve/Bernard since they know it's there now and they can start the robot revolution!

[GGG]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Bernard can't be dead can he? Won't Maeve just get Felix to fix him up? Backdoor will be removed for Maeve/Bernard since they know it's there now and they can start the robot revolution!

It will be interesting to see if the Backdoor was eliminated from Maeve's upgrades. Since Ford has no knowledge of Maeve and is deleting Bernard's knowledge of it she should still be free to roam and free Bernard again.

The other question I have is how many Robots has Ford put in charge. Theoretically all the programmers in Ford's group could be robot's with just the corporate QA group being human. What would be the purpose of leaving the guys who helped Maeve as humans?

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by GGG

It will be interesting to see if the Backdoor was eliminated from Maeve's upgrades. Since Ford has no knowledge of Maeve and is deleting Bernard's knowledge of it she should still be free to roam and free Bernard again.

The other question I have is how many Robots has Ford put in charge. Theoretically all the programmers in Ford's group could be robot's with just the corporate QA group being human. What would be the purpose of leaving the guys who helped Maeve as humans?

It was just a one-off, but it looks as though Maeve can recognize hosts ala her conversation with Bernard.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Bernard can't be dead can he? Won't Maeve just get Felix to fix him up? Backdoor will be removed for Maeve/Bernard since they know it's there now and they can start the robot revolution!

I can't imagine Bernard is permanently dead. Ford will just make a new one. Or repair that one.

But definitely possible Maeve finds that bernard since he's down with the other old units that a lot of people have been speculating she'll use.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I can't imagine Bernard is permanently dead. Ford will just make a new one. Or repair that one.

But definitely possible Maeve finds that bernard since he's down with the other old units that a lot of people have been speculating she'll use.

I could see him being resurrected by Maeve or a coalition of hosts, but the way Ford was talking it's as though he is letting go of that past and his hope for RoboArnold.

If he has been through this before and been disappointed with the result, this may be the culmination.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by getbak

That's not exactly what he says...

"And then, something miraculous happened. In all my years coming here, I had never seen anything like it."

Long pause as we see Maeve carrying her daughter out of the house.

"She was alive, truly alive, if only for a moment."

That doesn't really contradict anything we've seen between William and Dolores.

If the MIB is William, he has spent the last 30 years seeing Dolores and all the other hosts play out their pre-programmed loops repeatedly, always to get reset at the end. Whatever he thought he had with Dolores will get wiped out and overwritten and she'll just go back to dropping that damned can every day to get picked up by Teddy or some other random tourist.

Dolores also goes into some kind of murder bot mode at some point, which will probably involve her shedding her skin and walking around terminator style.

I'm guessing that could change William's perspective on how human she is.

[photon]

So I'm still confused about the timelines. The church/town which was covered by the sand is 'now' since Ford was looking at it once. The MiB is now. Delores having flashbacks is the past. Delores ends up in the basement under the church having flashbacks but then meets the MiB which is 'now'. Did the town under the sand get uncovered again?

EDIT: Lol, 'Bernarnold'

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by photon

So I'm still confused about the timelines. The church/town which was covered by the sand is 'now' since Ford was looking at it once. The MiB is now. Delores having flashbacks is the past. Delores ends up in the basement under the church having flashbacks but then meets the MiB which is 'now'. Did the town under the sand get uncovered again?

EDIT: Lol, 'Bernarnold'

Ford goes out and looks at the town covered in sand and you can only see the church steeple sticking out in an earlier episode as he's beginning work on his new narrative. Then he uncovers it as part of his 'renovations' to the park and now it's uncovered for when Delores and MiB arrive there.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by GGG

The Logan MIB theory I don't think holds up as his wife has never been introduced and what does he care about the Androids becoming human. I figure William kills Logan in the finale to complete his turn into the MIB and fit with the story his daughter said about him

The only thing that doesn't make sense is the fact that the MIB told Ford that he helped save the place after the first critical failure, which we can assume was Dolores in the William/Logan timeline.

Wouldn't that mean that the MIB helped stop Dolores from reaching full consciousness etc.?

this only works if the time frames are as suggested in all the theories. Of course, it could be the case that the critical failure they talk about isnt in any of these time frames discussed.

[gottabekd]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

Ford goes out and looks at the town covered in sand and you can only see the church steeple sticking out in an earlier episode as he's beginning work on his new narrative. Then he uncovers it as part of his 'renovations' to the park and now it's uncovered for when Delores and MiB arrive there.

Yea, as best as I can tell, there are essentially three different time periods that are explored in the show's narrative. Present day is the MIB, Bernard, Theresa, board trying to oust Ford timeline.


1. 35 years ago, while working on the host behaviour before the park opens, Arnold is killed. Hosts go haywire, killing each other, possibly from hearing the voices in their head. Seemingly Teddy does a bunch of killing, but Delores had a part to play as well (such as killing Arnold). Also, hosts kill a bunch of lab techs as well for good measure. It was decided that they bury this town, and forget the whole thing (including Arnold) ever happened. Anything happening in this time is always presented as a flashback, being introduced through dialogue or visually through hosts opening their eyes as if they are awakening from a dream.

2. 30 years ago William goes off on his adventure with Logan and Delores. At this time, Escalante is buried in sand, and all that remains is the church steeple sticking out of the sand. Some disaster strikes the park (such as Delores murdering people again), William saves the day, saves the park.

3. Present day, MIB (who I am now assuming is William) is back in the park, digging in to an old story of Arnold's called 'The Maze'. Meanwhile, Ford is constructing his new narrative, part of which involves digging up the old buried town of Escalante. In some way, Ford seems to be reviving Arnold's old 'maze' narrative.


Any scenes with Delores by herself could be present day, or her lucid memories from the past. This past episode was very confusing, since I believe they show Delores in three different times, but two different outfits.

It's also a little strange how Ford's new narrative is being constructed seemingly at the same time that the MIB is exploring it.

I expect a fair deal will be cleared up in the 90 minute finale. Of course they have about 5 more seasons planned out, so not every story line will be wrapped up neatly.

[Finger Cookin]

Ford's new narrative is basically recreating what went down with Arnold into a narrative loop, isn't it?

• Wyatt's a big part of the new narrative, and had strange ideas about what "this place" was for. He kind of sounds like Arnold.

• Teddy felt like he was being controlled by the devil himself when he was shooting the soldiers/townspeople. That sounds a lot like the kind of control Arnold could exhibit - or (like we've seen Maeve do) a self aware host who knows some of the verbal commands. Maybe a self aware host who killed Arnold? Like, say, Delores?

• Logan's been promoted to a colonel or general or whatever (paraphrasing his words). Teddy killed a general in his flashback to Escalante. Maybe Teddy's acting as a placeholder in this narrative...for William? William and Delores going on a rampage killing hosts in Escalante before William kills Logan?

Not sure where Maeve and Hector fit into all of this. Based on how the loops seem to work in the show, I wouldn't be surprised if their awareness is somehow used as part of Ford's narrative, wiping out docile hosts and "escaping" their prison and creator only to have it all part of a cruel narrative loop that replays over and over for them.

What a great ride this season has been.

[Wastedyouth]

This last episode wrinkle my mind grapes.

[Finger Cookin]

Does anyone have some thoughts as to why Bernard responds to Maeve's voice commands, but never to any of the other voice commands given to other hosts while Bernard is present?

[Cecil Terwilliger]

I think it is because of her override capability.

She exhibited some of it, after she had been dialed up, when she went back in and started bossing other hosts around. She ordered that Sheriff to leave and for the other lawmen to shoot each other. Among other things.

[Fuzz]

Did Delores kill Arnold knowingly, or was she programmed by someone(Ford?) to do it?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Did Delores kill Arnold knowingly, or was she programmed by someone(Ford?) to do it?

I going with memory flashback to people killing her causing her to shoot him in what she percieved as self defence. But you do present an interesting scenario that Ford took Arnold's place as the voice inside their heads as consciousness emerged and told her to kill Arnold.