The Matthew Tkachuk contract negotiations

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by blender

There's a lot of strange stuff going on in this thread.
Ricardo, it doesn't matter what YOU think an 8m salary player is.
Jack, where are the Leafs contracts significantly better value across the board? Giordano and Gaudreau's deals are the two best value deals on either team.

I think a lot of people are pretty high strung about Tkachuk not being signed and it has gotten worse now that Marnwr is signed.

He means they’re more expensive, not a bang for buck better deal.

[blender]

Well, that's the exact opposite of what he posted, so forgive me for being baffled.

[AC]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

As soon as you start talking 8M I expect a player that will be double shifted in the 3rd period of a game the team is down by a goal. A player that you are waiting to come on and change the momentum of the game. A player who causes the other team to panic to get the right match-ups against. Iginla was that kind of player.

Gaudreau is that kind of player.

Aho is that kind of player

Tkachuk is not that kind of player now. Will he be?

2 years at 5M is the best way for the Flames to go.

LOL.

Tying goal with the goalie pulled vs WSH

Tying goal with the goalie pulled @ BUF

Primary assist on tying goal with the goalie pulled vs PHI

Tying goal late @ PHI

Primary assist on OT goal @ PHI

3rd period go-ahead goal vs FLA

3rd period go-ahead goal vs BUF

Yeah, good call.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by JackIsBack

Posting in two threads:

It's interesting... after this deal (Mitchell Marner), Toronto is still under the cap by about $298,134.

All Calgary has left under the cap is about $7,950,791 to sign both Tkachuk and Mangiapane (if we do sign him) - so if we sign Tkachuk for anything more than 7.95 million, we'd be forced to make some roster moves or trades.

It's weird... a team with these contracts:
11,634,000
11,000,000
10,893,000
6,962,366
5,300,000
5,250,000
5,000,000
5,000,000

has more cap room then us with these:
???? (8,000,000)
6,750,000
6,750,000
6,375,000
5,350,000
5,250,000
4,950,000
4,850,000

They beat us on value on every contract in the top 8 (some significantly) with one very small (50k) exception.

The Flames spend more on D, and the Flames' D is way better.

The Leafs have only one D man under contract past this year (other than prospects like Liljegren, etc). Next year, their D is going to probably cost more than ours, and will still be worse.

Also, we have a much deeper bottom 6 than they do. After moving Kadri (to be able to afford the big 4), their bottom 6 is really thin now.

When you spend half of the cap on 4 guys, depth is going to be a problem, and that is already the case this year. Next year, it's only going to get worse.

[dino7c]

Do I need to post the list of guys Matty outscored last year again...Malkin ect.

[dino7c]

As for the cap wizard Leafs...they were already forced to trade a 1st to dump a salary this summer and will have similar tough calls next summer

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by JackIsBack

Posting in two threads:

It's interesting... after this deal (Mitchell Marner), Toronto is still under the cap by about $298,134.

All Calgary has left under the cap is about $7,950,791 to sign both Tkachuk and Mangiapane (if we do sign him) - so if we sign Tkachuk for anything more than 7.95 million, we'd be forced to make some roster moves or trades.

It's weird... a team with these contracts:
11,634,000
11,000,000
10,893,000
6,962,366
5,300,000
5,250,000
5,000,000
5,000,000

has more cap room then us with these:
???? (8,000,000)
6,750,000
6,750,000
6,375,000
5,350,000
5,250,000
4,950,000
4,850,000

They beat us on value on every contract in the top 8 (some significantly) with one very small (50k) exception.

I dont envy the leafs

Hot Take Incoming: Their window is already closed...they just haven't realized it. On paper they have a worse (less deep team) in a division with Boston and Tampa. Hockey is not a strong link sport...especially in the playoffs. It's a weak link sport. In a game one or two mistakes make the difference, so you are far more dependent on your 3rd and 4th line than a sport like basketball where stars matter. Have a look at the 3rd and 4th lines of the last 10 SC winners (let alone defense). The leafs are not even in the ballpark of competing. From this point onward, unless there is a major bump in the salary cap, their teams will become progressively worse. Next year they are down Rielly or equivalent. This year they need to either have an injury or dump players to welcome McDermott back.

For comparison, the flames can dump Brodie and/or Hamonic and/or Frolik next year and reload with another 15M in cap space.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

As soon as you start talking 8M I expect a player that will be double shifted in the 3rd period of a game the team is down by a goal. A player that you are waiting to come on and change the momentum of the game. A player who causes the other team to panic to get the right match-ups against. Iginla was that kind of player.

Gaudreau is that kind of player.

Aho is that kind of player

Tkachuk is not that kind of player now. Will he be?

2 years at 5M is the best way for the Flames to go.

Actually 8 years at 800,000 is even better but each one has the same chance of happening.


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[djsFlames]

Why are we boosting his value with praises here?

He's extremely mediocre, worth half of Marner's AAV, easily.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by tkflames

I dont envy the leafs

Hot Take Incoming: Their window is already closed...they just haven't realized it. On paper they have a worse (less deep team) in a division with Boston and Tampa. Hockey is not a strong link sport...especially in the playoffs. It's a weak link sport. In a game one or two mistakes make the difference, so you are far more dependent on your 3rd and 4th line than a sport like basketball where stars matter. Have a look at the 3rd and 4th lines of the last 10 SC winners (let alone defense). The leafs are not even in the ballpark of competing. From this point onward, unless there is a major bump in the salary cap, their teams will become progressively worse. Next year they are down Rielly or equivalent. This year they need to either have an injury or dump players to welcome McDermott back.

For comparison, the flames can dump Brodie and/or Hamonic and/or Frolik next year and reload with another 15M in cap space.

This is true, and important. It is an interesting challenge for Tre to make this case as player agents are out for one player at a time.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

As soon as you start talking 8M I expect a player that will be double shifted in the 3rd period of a game the team is down by a goal. A player that you are waiting to come on and change the momentum of the game. A player who causes the other team to panic to get the right match-ups against. Iginla was that kind of player.

Gaudreau is that kind of player.

Aho is that kind of player

Tkachuk is not that kind of player now. Will he be?

2 years at 5M is the best way for the Flames to go.

Tkachuk would probably ask for a trade before signing a 2 year contract at $5 million per.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Tkachuk would probably ask for a trade before signing a 2 year contract at $5 million per.

No doubt. If that was the best Flames were prepared to do, he would have negotiated an offer sheet by now.

[Stay Golden]

The Flames organization have put themselves in this position. They made every other off season transaction except the most significant piece that was already staring them in the face prior to July.

It has become clear they are and have been trying to force Tkachuk to sign for 1.5-2m less that what they know and his camp knows he is worth. Which is exactly why they have deliberately left less than 8m left to sign Mangi and Tkachuk.

JMO their plan all along has not wavered was a certain number lower than what Tkachuk is worth on the open market but based only what they are willing to pay. Even if they had 15m currently of cap space they would only go as high as 7.5m per for Tkachuk.
Do you really think Dad Tkachuk whith all the big contracts he had through out his career is going to let a team under value his son just because they didn't manage their salary cap.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

The Flames organization have put themselves in this position. They made every other off season transaction except the most significant piece that was already staring them in the face prior to July.

It has become clear they are and have been trying to force Tkachuk to sign for 1.5-2m less that what they know and his camp knows he is worth. Which is exactly why they have deliberately left less than 8m left to sign Mangi and Tkachuk.

JMO their plan all along has not wavered was a certain number lower than what Tkachuk is worth on the open market but based only what they are willing to pay. Even if they had 15m currently of cap space they would only go as high as 7.5m per for Tkachuk.
Do you really think Dad Tkachuk whith all the big contracts he had through out his career is going to let a team under value his son just because they didn't manage their salary cap.

I don’t doubt that they have a plan and are sticking to it.

It’s not that the team didn’t “manage their cap”. I will point to 6-7 absolutely kick ass contracts that say they sure as hell did!

If old man Tkachuk is behind the holdout, he can also think about shutting up.

Most players have the goal of winning a cup and old man Tkachuk never won a Cup.

The only way his boy has a chance to win a cup is by playing, not by holding out.

This team has a window in the next 2-3 years. Matthew can take a reasonable salary on a short term deal, be part of it, and get paid more when the team has money.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

...It has become clear they are and have been trying to force Tkachuk to sign for 1.5-2m less that what they know and his camp knows he is worth. Which is exactly why they have deliberately left less than 8m left to sign Mangi and Tkachuk...

This is not remotely clear. At the moment there is still considerable conjecture about what market value is for this year’s large pool of RFAs. I am sure the Flames are focussed on getting the best possible deal they can in this negotiation—as they should, but it is a huge, unfounded assumption to insist that it is obvious the team is deliberately low-balling the player.


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[Stay Golden]

If Tkachuk holds out I wouldn't fault him one bit. The Flames what I suspect are offering 7m max. He is worth more and the Flames have the weak strategy do us a solid we can only can offer 7m because we have to sign Mangi for 800k.

The Flames know damn well Tkachuk is worth 8.5m in this current ridiculous NHL market.
If Tkachuk holds out it's the Flames who have created that situation by not getting Tkachuk done and making the necessary moves to allow that.
All Tkachuk did was exactly what the team wanted play hard, become a leader, put up points and become a very popular young player amongst Flames fans.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

If Tkachuk holds out I wouldn't fault him one bit. The Flames what I suspect are offering 7m max. He is worth more and the Flames have the weak strategy do us a solid we can only can offer 7m because we have to sign Mangi for 800k.

The Flames know damn well Tkachuk is worth 8.5m in this current ridiculous NHL market.
If Tkachuk holds out it's the Flames who have created that situation by not getting Tkachuk done and making the necessary moves to allow that.
All Tkachuk did was exactly what the team wanted play hard, become a leader, put up points and become a very popular young player amongst Flames fans.

Right. And the option to walk away from ~7 million for the year is his too. He can take zero

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Right. And the option to walk away from ~7 million for the year is his too. He can take zero

So if you were Tkachuk you would sign 1 year for 7m?
If Tkachuk signs any contract for 7m he is doing the organization a big favor not himself.

13, 23, 28, 5 all make 1.5-2.5m less than what they are worth. All Flames friendly deals and they "expect" Tkachuk to fall in line, be a good soldier.

I bet right now the Flames are looking at all options to Trade Tkachuk rather than pay him his full value should he decide to stick to what he is worth and holds out.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by AC

LOL.

Tying goal with the goalie pulled vs WSH

Tying goal with the goalie pulled @ BUF

Primary assist on tying goal with the goalie pulled vs PHI

Tying goal late @ PHI

Primary assist on OT goal @ PHI

3rd period go-ahead goal vs FLA

3rd period go-ahead goal vs BUF

Yeah, good call.

If you have it handy how does this compare to Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm and Gio?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

As soon as you start talking 8M I expect a player that will be double shifted in the 3rd period of a game the team is down by a goal. A player that you are waiting to come on and change the momentum of the game. A player who causes the other team to panic to get the right match-ups against. Iginla was that kind of player.

Gaudreau is that kind of player.

Aho is that kind of player

Tkachuk is not that kind of player now. Will he be?

2 years at 5M is the best way for the Flames to go.

LOL!

You’re such a joke Ricardo. You know no one here takes you seriously right? I really wonder what your motivation is on this board