2018 Blue Jays Season Thread

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by cross16

@bnicholsonsmith
55m55 minutes ago
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#BlueJays expect to shift focus to controllable pitching now per Ross Atkins. “We’re at the point now where our position player talent is very, very strong and it’d be hard to really upgrade"

Yeah that's pretty much true. Infield is stacked and adding Wall & McKinney to the outfield (plus you can move surplus infields to the corners) is a plus there. I guess the plan is to go after an Ace via free agency with the Martin/Tulo money when it becomes available and fill in the rest of the rotation with Pearson/SRF/Borucki/Zeuch types.

[Jason14h]

But why make the Center piece of the Happ trade a 25 year old utility INF

Best case is he causes us to win a few game in the next 2 years when loosing is preferable ?

[cross16]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

But why make the Center piece of the Happ trade a 25 year old utility INF

Best case is he causes us to win a few game in the next 2 years when loosing is preferable ?

I think they see him as more than just a utility INF. Also at 25 it's not like he only factors into the next 2 years.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by cross16

I think they see him as more than just a utility INF. Also at 25 it's not like he only factors into the next 2 years.

He has 3 more year of control is I heard the sportsnet guys correctly

He isn’t a 25 year old with no service time

[cross16]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

He has 3 more year of control is I heard the sportsnet guys correctly

He isn’t a 25 year old with no service time

I beliveve that's correct but why is he for sure gone? Just seems lik a rash take.

FWIW there are more then a few New York writers on twitter saying the Jays got the better of this trade and the Yankees overpaid.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by cross16

I beliveve that's correct but why is he for sure gone? Just seems lik a rash take.

FWIW there are more then a few New York writers on twitter saying the Jays got the better of this trade and the Yankees overpaid.

I’m yet to see an article thinking Yanks gave up anything

PTI, ESPN, and Sportsnet talking to the NY local sports rep all say Toronto got nothing

My biggest issue is Atkins has wanted him for years. He went into this process with a Bias and target a specific player. But a player that makes no sense for this team. Too old, not enough control, and playing a position we don't need.

Sure he may not be gone in 3 years... You can resign everyone. But he’s already Arb eligible.

If this was the best deal on the table ? Fine. And maybe it was. But i think it's more likely Atkins and his crew wanted this specific player and set up a trade around him.

Unfortunently this player is a 25 year old utility Infielder who is already arbitration eligible.

It looks to me like the Jays will be trying to find guys who can play next year, so we can win our typical 70 games, and not do a proper rebuild. They will spin it in the offseason that Osuna, Stroman, and Sanchez were all non factors and if they bounce back, we totally could sneak in as a wild card.

Heck, JD might accept his QO and they can play the "JD missed all of last season, image if he magically reverts to a healthy 3 year younger version" to sell tickets while they try to sell the team.

[cross16]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

I’m yet to see an article thinking Yanks gave up anything

PTI, ESPN, and Sportsnet talking to the NY local sports rep all say Toronto got nothing

My biggest issue is Atkins has wanted him for years. He went into this process with a Bias and target a specific player. But a player that makes no sense for this team. Too old, not enough control, and playing a position we don't need.

Sure he may not be gone in 3 years... You can resign everyone. But he’s already Arb eligible.

If this was the best deal on the table ? Fine. And maybe it was. But i think it's more likely Atkins and his crew wanted this specific player and set up a trade around him.

Unfortunently this player is a 25 year old utility Infielder who is already arbitration eligible.

Marc Craig. New York writer for the Ayheltic.
The Yankees overpaid for J.A. Happ and I think tbey know it. That said, they were in position to do so. They could afford to overpay, but couldn’t afford missing a chance to protect the rotation.

Andy Martino SNY TV writer.
This is a good ol baseball trade for both Yankees and Jays. Drury way better player than any prospect they would get for Happ, but Yanks didn't need him, and filled their own need.

Plus both Rosenthal and Heyman liked the move as I posted earlier. I get it's a bit underwhelming but I also do t think the Jays were ever going to get a top prospect for Happ.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by cross16

Marc Craig. New York writer for the Ayheltic.
The Yankees overpaid for J.A. Happ and I think tbey know it. That said, they were in position to do so. They could afford to overpay, but couldn’t afford missing a chance to protect the rotation.

Andy Martino SNY TV writer.
This is a good ol baseball trade for both Yankees and Jays. Drury way better player than any prospect they would get for Happ, but Yanks didn't need him, and filled their own need.

Plus both Rosenthal and Heyman liked the move as I posted earlier. I get it's a bit underwhelming but I also do t think the Jays were ever going to get a top prospect for Happ.

Even is the value is 'fair', the trade makes NO SENSE from a Jays perspective. Explain why you like this return.

What is the best case? He plays well for the next 2 years, while the Jays have no chance of competing. We win an extra few games, which is actually a detriment for a rebuilding team, and then gets paid in arbitration twice, and in year 3 when we are ready to compete we have 1 year of control, paying a high amount?

Even if he hits .280 with 20 HR next season, I think the trade makes no sense. We should be getting high upside young players who can be ready to compete in 2-3 years, not 25 year olds with 4 years of service

[bluejays]

I'm in agreement. The trade on the outset looks neither here nor there, and for a solid starter, underwhelming. To me with these types of negotiations I'd rather not make the deal to say to other GM's in the future that unless you come with a good offer, we're willing to sit on our guy and lose him for nothing. This sets a bad precedent on their negotiating philosophy with other teams knowing they'll settle for less when the clock is ticking. There doesn't appear to be upside with these guys back, which is maddening to a large degree. What I do like about Atkins and Shapiro are that they haven't spoken on what their strategy is, so I guess to some degree I don't mind waiting it out and seeing how the next couple seasons play out, but the way I see it this team doesn't seem to have much of a direction as the guys with trade value are still on a roster when there should be more of a teardown. So what their rebuild philosophy is, is anyone's guess at this point.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Vladdy 2 for 4 with a home run and a walk and zero strike outs tonight. I’m thinking a call up to AAA is imminent.
Newly acquired Forrest Wall hit a home run tonight too!

[cross16]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Even is the value is 'fair', the trade makes NO SENSE from a Jays perspective. Explain why you like this return.

As I said i did find the trade underwhelming at first i just think this reaction is over the top. I can see a few reasons why this trade was made and why it helps the Jays.

1) I think we see Drury differently. From everything i've looked at and read the Jays just acquired an MLB starting caliber bat who can play multiple positions and maybe has some upside to be a better than avg starter. At 25 and with that type of versatility I view that as a plus. I don' think they picked up another Solarte, I think they picked up a better version of him. I think it's worth pointing out that the Yankee gave up 2 Top 15 prospects for Drury less than 7 months ago with the intention of him being their starting 3B. A health issue is the primary reason that didn't happen.
2) I don't think Happ was going to garner the interest and return that some thought. I don't think you were getting a top 100 prospect for Happ and i'm not sure you were getting one of the Yankees top arms. I think if you look past that and you still wanted a prospect you would be acquiring someone with the upside of Brandon Drury with the risk that he never gets here.
3) I don't think the Jays are starting a rebuild, they are already in it. I think it makes sense to have some players who can contribute in 1-2 seasons because that is when I see guys like Jansen, Vlad Jr, Bichette etc coming up and being ready to go. to me it makes sense to have some MLB ready talent with them.

[JTech780]

All of Toronto's top prospects are at AA and below, they need some young players that can bridge the gap. Drury and McKinney are those players. Also McKinney was a top 100 prospect in baseball a two years ago and has just been caught in the depth of the Yankees. Drury would have been the starting 3rd baseman for the Yankees this year if he didn't get injured, Andujar came up and didn't give the job back. Drury is a big upgrade on Solarte IMO, he is more athletic and better defensively, and I think with regular playing time he will show that at the very least he can equal Solarte offensively.

I also think there is a very good chance that when Vlad Jr. makes it to the bigs it will be at 1B, so having Drury at 3rd helps cover if Vlad's defense at 3rd doesn't improve enough to be an everyday 3B.


I also think some are way over valuing what Happ is, for us he was an ace or at least our number 2. On most contenders he is a 3 at best but most likely a 4. So teams that were looking to acquire Happ, weren't looking at him as a top of the pitcher, he is a guy that rounds out a rotation.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by cross16

1) 3) I don't think the Jays are starting a rebuild, they are already in it. I think it makes sense to have some players who can contribute in 1-2 seasons because that is when I see guys like Jansen, Vlad Jr, Bichette etc coming up and being ready to go. to me it makes sense to have some MLB ready talent with them.

This is true and I agree. Baseball isn't a sport where adding one guy can transform a franchise. You don't want to burn it to the ground and then immediately call up Vlad because a replacement level team + Vlad is still a really bad team and then you're just wasting Vlad's pre-arbitration and cost friendly years. Having said that he (Drury) hasn't displayed much thus far. He's basically just displayed that he can be Solarte... meaning an averagish bat that can play multiple non-premium positions. Which is handy thing to have... but you can't have it in excess and right now the Jays have it in excess. The Jays basically need to ship out one of Diaz or Solarte for this to make any sense under any circumstance.

Originally Posted by JTech780

So teams that were looking to acquire Happ, weren't looking at him as a top of the pitcher, he is a guy that rounds out a rotation.

Sure... I still don't think making the key piece back a averagish 25 year old utility IF (that can't reasonably play SS) was a wise move for a franchise that has a glut of such infielders (and suspect pitching depth).

[cross16]

Originally Posted by fleury

. So what their rebuild philosophy is, is anyone's guess at this point.

Is it?

I don't know for me it's pretty clear. They want to build an organization that has depth and not just depth at 1 or 2 position but depth at every position. They started with position players, I think because they are "safer" and were in short supply in the organization, and now are starting to branch out to pitching (as Atkins alluded to yesterday).

They've been pretty consistent in that being their message.

[cross16]

Originally Posted by Parallex

He's basically just displayed that he can be Solarte... meaning an averagish bat that can play multiple non-premium positions. Which is handy thing to have... but you can't have it in excess and right now the Jays have it in excess. The Jays basically need to ship out one of Diaz or Solarte for this to make any sense under any circumstance.

I think I see a little more upside personally and I've read a few articles of sources I trust that seem to indicate he's got more upside than Solarte but I guess we will see.

[flames_fan_down_under]

This move seems pretty in line with Atkins messaging on team depth at every position. I see it as another move raising the floor of talent and keeping competition high for all positions on the field. Solarte and Diaz were upgrades on
Barney/Goins and now Drury is an upgrade on Solarte/Diaz, plus he’s younger and still has some upside. Are there are lot of middle infielders? Ya but so what, its not like we have seen anything from Solarte, Diaz or even Travis to consider them as every day starters worth holding on to. We traded a 35 year old rental starting pitcher who is a 1 WAR player this season for what looks to be an every day roster player, not bad.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

We traded a 35 year old rental starting pitcher who is a 1 WAR player this season for what looks to be an every day roster player, not bad.

See... I don't think he is an everyday player. To be an everyday player he'd need to be in the top 3 of the IF group at any one time... with the IF depth already here and the IF depth in the high minors I don't forsee that being the case for any extended period.

I see him as a bench bat.

[Karl]

Brandon Drury is not good enough to be an everyday player as of now and is not an upgrade over Solarte. He has a ways to go to reach an everyday MLB player level.

This Happ trade is a rather underwhelming trade but we need to blow up this team anyway so whatever.

[JTech780]

Originally Posted by Karl

Brandon Drury is not good enough to be an everyday player as of now and is not an upgrade over Solarte. He has a ways to go to reach an everyday MLB player level.

This Happ trade is a rather underwhelming trade but we need to blow up this team anyway so whatever.

Prior to this year Drury was an everyday player in Arizona. Drury is an upgrade on Solarte defensively, he will bat for a better average and have a better OBP, and has just as much power as Solarte.

[JTech780]

The the Jays were ever going to get for Happ was a teams 10-15th best prospects. With prospects in that range you hope they turn out to be as good as Drury. I don't think getting a top 10 prospect from a team was ever a reality.