Craig Conroy and "The Dallas Model"

[traptor]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Honzek wasn't a drafting for size pick.

He was a top 15 pick in a deep draft with skill AND size.

It's a bit disingenuous to say he was a top 15 ranked prospect at the time of the draft unless i misunderstand what youre saying.

He was a 15-25 pick on most rankings, I think like #21 on the consolidated.

[traptor]

I look at the islanders as the dallas model without the same kind of draft luck and a more realistic scenario to the approach the flames want to take.

They retooled on the fly after missing playoffs a couple times and losing tavares. They never bottomed out.

They kept some vets in lee, nelson and baily.
Had some young drafted guys step up lole barzal, dobson and sorokin.

Then made some trades to fill holes with romanov and horvat.

No massive lottery lock but hit of some key picks.

Have they been successful in their approach? It's hard to say.
They've actually had some decent playoff success but I never feel like their legit contenders.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by traptor

It's a bit disingenuous to say he was a top 15 ranked prospect at the time of the draft unless i misunderstand what youre saying.

He was a 15-25 pick on most rankings, I think like #21 on the consolidated.

#16 on Bob’s list which is the only list that aggregates rankings from the nhl scouts he talks with

[Jiri Hrdina]

Also size is a factor in picking the best player just like skating, hockey sense and other attributes are

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by traptor

It's a bit disingenuous to say he was a top 15 ranked prospect at the time of the draft unless i misunderstand what youre saying.

He was a 15-25 pick on most rankings, I think like #21 on the consolidated.

Not sure disingenuous was the nicest word choice given the myriad of rankings and averaging of rankings that exist out there!

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Not sure disingenuous was the nicest word choice given the myriad of rankings and averaging of rankings that exist out there!

Lets not pretend any of us had him as the pick just before they announced it. He was widely considered a 20+ range prospect in the first round. It wasn't a Jankowski type of reach but he was not projected to go in the teens. Conroy and the scouts clearly liked him but so far the pick doesn't look great. They need to do a better job getting value out of their picks in this upcoming draft.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Lets not pretend any of us had him as the pick just before they announced it. He was widely considered a 20+ range prospect in the first round. It wasn't a Jankowski type of reach but he was not projected to go in the teens. Conroy and the scouts clearly liked him but so far the pick doesn't look great. They need to do a better job getting value out of their picks in this upcoming draft.

I was saying he wasn't picked because he was big. He is big, but he was projected to go in that range.

Not defending the pick at all.

Not trying to put lipstick on his lost season.

Certainly wasn't trying to be disingenuous.

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Lets not pretend any of us had him as the pick just before they announced it. He was widely considered a 20+ range prospect in the first round. It wasn't a Jankowski type of reach but he was not projected to go in the teens. Conroy and the scouts clearly liked him but so far the pick doesn't look great. They need to do a better job getting value out of their picks in this upcoming draft.

So no chance a big skillled winger improves ala stormgren? Especially after two injury plagued seasons?

[1qqaaz]

Well, whatever their mindset was in picking Honzek, hopefully they change it.
The Flames have really had problems with their first round picks dealing with injuries. Practically all of them since 2011 except Jankowski, Tkachuk, and Coronato have had injury problems.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Fan69

So no chance a big skillled winger improves ala stormgren? Especially after two injury plagued seasons?

Stromgren isn’t a great example. He looks like a fringe prospect currently.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Lets not pretend any of us had him as the pick just before they announced it. He was widely considered a 20+ range prospect in the first round. It wasn't a Jankowski type of reach but he was not projected to go in the teens. Conroy and the scouts clearly liked him but so far the pick doesn't look great. They need to do a better job getting value out of their picks in this upcoming draft.

I don’t think it was a reach at all. It felt like a reach because there were players on the board that weren’t taken yet they were expected to go higher. Mckenzie’s list is basically the best source to judge if a pick is a reach or not and Honzek went right where he was projected to go.

[Erick Estrada]

The Honzek pick is in the past. I didn’t like it then, nor do I like it now and nobody here will convince me it was the best pick given the players still available where they picked. That draft is over and my focus going forward is that Conroy does better in his 2nd draft.

[NewFan]

When we don't have cores players, I think, retool is not good option. We should talk about a quick rebuild or long term rebuild.
Quick one - trade all valuable veteran players for mostly prospects and some draft picks and try build team with whatever players the team able to collect.
Long one - Be patient, trade all veteran players and try to collect high drafts pucks and late round gems.
Try to find at least 1-2 very good prospects in a year and repeat 3-4 times until you collect 2 superstar forwards and 2 first pairing D prospects and 3-4 support players to complete the core.

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Stromgren isn’t a great example. He looks like a fringe prospect currently.

Everyone except me i think had pretty much written him off. The last few months he has been one if the wranglers best players? I think they call it progression.

How many people had pospisil as a lock for the season last year? I had pretty much written him off due to injuries but a year later hear we are.

Writing off prospect a year or two after draft, especially after injuries, seems a little fruitless to me.

[Erick Estrada]

I’m not writing off Honzek. I would not be surprised in the least if he makes the NHL. I just don’t see a top line player with him. I just don’t see high enough upside as this is an organization that already has a lot of B level prospects.

[Matty81]

He looked pretty bad when I saw him play live this year and tough looking back right now especially with players like Sandin-Pellika, Moore and Perreault going behind him who all really seem to have higher end offensive ability, but what I'm hoping with Honzek is that his game will improve in leaps and bounds as he fills out.

He tries to play the game like Draisaitl, controlling the puck down low by shielding it and he is a super skinny kid who just doesn't have the strength to really do it consistently right now. 25 lbs of muscle on his frame and he will be a different player and I am thinking the flames picked him projecting that size coming

[traptor]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Not sure disingenuous was the nicest word choice given the myriad of rankings and averaging of rankings that exist out there!

Sorry I didn't mean to be rude.

I just meant he wasn't generally a top 15 prospect. Maybe one or two lists had him there but the general consensus seemed to be early 20s.

They took him early in his range, they didn't steal a guy that slipped.

Looking at how it played out with ASP, Barlow, moore and sale drafted right after him, there's a good chance that he would of still been there at #21.