I work for Mayor Nenshi, ask me anything!

[JiriHrdina]

I agree both look poor in that exchange. I understand the reference Nenshi is making with that tweet - but it still out of bounds. Nenshi would have been better off if he had stopped with his original replies. Now he's down in the muck with Ezra - that's not the Nenshi that people like. They like the guy that rises above that crud.

Rare public mis-step by the mayor. Not one that will cost him or anything - it will be forgotten within days. But still not impressive.

[frinkprof]

In addition to the above,

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

my post pre-edit stated that I dismissed the Pembina story as fake as there is (or was) no way that the mayor of a city whose affluence is dependent upon the energy industry and especially the oilsands would engage the Pembina institute.

Although I don't know all the details on this one, the mayor (or, say, a single alderman) typically doesn't "engage" directly and as a sole actor with consultants or vendors, etc. in the way you seem to be implying. Administration typically does this after the budget for the particular program/study is granted by council, then the consultants will be invited to report to council intermittently during the study/program or when it is complete.

[Freeway]

I agree; there's really no "good" outcome from engaging with Ezra publicly.

[para transit fellow]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

don't kid yourself though. Set aside Levant's theatrics for a moment. The Pembina questions are valid questions.

The city engaged a consultant group who is active in looking to cease development of oilsands. That has direct and secondary impact to many, many Calgarians.

It is fair to ask for an explanation and accountability on the issue.

Frankly, I don't see evidence Pembina having a stated goal to cease development of the oil sands. If you could present evidence of a such a written goal or objective, I would be happy to give your argument consideration.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I agree both look poor in that exchange. I understand the reference Nenshi is making with that tweet - but it still out of bounds.

I'm not sure which concerns me more - that Nenshi was feeding Ezra's obvious fodder or that so many people on Twitter didn't catch Nenshi's implied comments.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Pembina Public Sector Clients:

Alberta Agriculture and Rural Development
Alberta Environment
Alberta Ministry of Finance and Enterprise
Alberta Sustainable Resource Development
Canadian Council of Ministers of the Environment
Environment Canada
Natural Resources Canada
etc

http://www.pembina.org/public-sector-services

Corporate clients include - BP Canada, EnCana, Shell Canada, ConocoPhillips Canada, Alberta Oilsands inc.

http://www.pembina.org/corporate-services

I don't know the specific details of what Pembina did for the City, but Pembina does consulting on a wide array of environmental and energy issues, for a lot of different clients including the oil patch and the Alberta Government.

Manufactured outrage from the Sun and Levant.

Yes, Pembina does do work for corporate clients - no doubt about that. No doubt about the advocacy side either.

However, surely you are prepared to acknowledge their intervening in hearings, participating in events, and lobbying to slow oilsands development and to argue against pipeline expansion out of Alberta.

And surely you can understand why that is a problem for Calgarians, and many Albertans. I think there needs to be better disclosure from the mayor on this.

And to quote the mayor himself: "Well, you're running for office. Your constituents deserve to know what, if anything, you stand for ...."

So where does the mayor stand?

(PS, I don't mind nenshi but think the tax increases are way out of wack. I'm still going to want to hold him accountable, especially when there are no credible candidates to keep him on his toes)

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by frinkprof

In addition to the above, Although I don't know all the details on this one, the mayor (or, say, a single alderman) typically doesn't "engage" directly and as a sole actor with consultants or vendors, etc. in the way you seem to be implying. Administration typically does this after the budget for the particular program/study is granted by council, then the consultants will be invited to report to council intermittently during the study/program or when it is complete.

right, that goes without saying that administration would make the hire, but the Mayor is the one who is most accountable to the electorate.

However it has now been raised and remains unanswered what relationship the Mayor personally has with Pembina and what role they may (or may not) have on his campaign. I'll be honest here. If the mayor had ignored Levant I would have given the Mayor the benefit of the doubt. Instead he was eager to start rolling in the mud. It's a much bigger issue now because he bit on Levant's prodding.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by Freeway

I agree; there's really no "good" outcome from engaging with Ezra publicly.

Even the biggest critics of Sun media and Levant have to acknowledge the work in uncovering the spending scandal of Chief Spence.

but this thread is about Nenshi and asking him "anything".

[CaptainCrunch]

Pretty classless by a mayor who at times doesn't know when to shut up and show restraint. As much as Nenshi is Calgary's sweetheart, Levant is asking legitimate questions.

Responding by basically eluding to domestic violence isn't just over the line, its about 10 yards off side.

As much as I like things about Nenshi, I'm not a big fan of his personality, and this argument makes him look childish and a bit repugnant.

We might not like Ezra and I think he's way over the top, but his editorial today on the Pembina question raises a lot of legitmate questions about his dealings with Pembina considering that the people that they are paying from Pembina fall more towards communication and marketing then towards any city environmental studies..

If someone had said the same thing in public about Nenshi and his significant other would he be demanding a public apology? Will he be a big enough man to publically apology to a member of the press.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Responding by basically eluding to domestic violence isn't just over the line, its about 10 yards off side.

He was doing no such thing. It's a canned response to a loaded question, which has already been explained here and everywhere else this has been discussed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question

[killer_carlson]

you know what though - maybe political science types or debate types may know that is a suggested way to deal with a loaded question, but I bet if you asked 100 people on the street, a large number would have no idea about it. Case in point - those that do know about it, watch how much you have to explain it over the next few days.

Nenshi should have known better.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

you know what though - maybe political science types or debate types may know that is a suggested way to deal with a loaded question, but I bet if you asked 100 people on the street, a large number would have no idea about it. Case in point - those that do know about it, watch how much you have to explain it over the next few days.

Nenshi should have known better.

That's probably true. His biggest mistake though was saying it to Ezra Lavant. He's going to chew on this bone Nenshi tossed him until his gums bleed.

[Slava]

I'm with you guys who say Nenshi ought not to be involved in these things, but he has nothing to apologize for either. The fact that its a loaded question is the point, and Ezra is well aware.

I do agree that asking about the Pembina institute isn't offside at all though, and these questions should be answered. (I highly doubt there is anything there, but the questions shouldn't be ignored just because of that).

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Slava

I'm with you guys who say Nenshi ought not to be involved in these things, but he has nothing to apologize for either. The fact that its a loaded question is the point, and Ezra is well aware.

I do agree that asking about the Pembina institute isn't offside at all though, and these questions should be answered. (I highly doubt there is anything there, but the questions shouldn't be ignored just because of that).

You don't think asking someone when he quit beating his wife on a public forum like twitter isn't something that he should apologize for? Come on Slava, if the shoe was on the other foot you'd be demanding a public flogging and apology.

Shouldn't we expect more from our mayor then childish rants and completely off side bursts of spazziness.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

He was doing no such thing. It's a canned response to a loaded question, which has already been explained here and everywhere else this has been discussed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question

I don't give two squirts about calling it a loaded question, it was a completely in appropriate question, it came across as a two year old spazz. And it alludes to someone beating their wife.

It was highly unprofessional. Maybe Nenshi should stay off of Twitter if he's going to go to the lowest common denominator.

[photon]

So which is it, lowest common denominator, or an example of a logical fallacy that a significant portion of the population has never heard of? It can't be both.

Should this discussion be split out of this thread?

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by frinkprof

In addition to the above, Although I don't know all the details on this one, the mayor (or, say, a single alderman) typically doesn't "engage" directly and as a sole actor with consultants or vendors, etc. in the way you seem to be implying. Administration typically does this after the budget for the particular program/study is granted by council, then the consultants will be invited to report to council intermittently during the study/program or when it is complete.

Which is what Levant does by suggesting the Mayor is "funding Pembina". It's absurd. He also claims the Mayor directly hired a former Pembina staff member. Also, absurd.

Also in this article Levant goes after the "biggest biller" to the City - Jesse Row. This guy advises on sustainable community growth practices, and energy efficiency of buildings. Expertise to activities the City engages in everyday. Yet, Row's mechanical engineering degree is somehow irrelevant as a professional expertise on such matters. He's just another anti-Alberta, anti-oil activist or something.

With reference to "when did you stop beating your wife?" - it's a common phrase in argument or debate to point out a loaded question fallacy. Seriously, there's nothing to actually be offended about here.

The Mayor's not one to just let slide or put up with false or ridiculous accusations - especially from Levant, who among other things has accused the Mayor of being anti-Christian due the way the City has dealt with Art Pawlowski.

Specifically on contracts with Pembina, the Mayor has answered questions in several media interviews that Pembina offers the City consulting expertise on certain issues or projects just as it does for industry in town and the Alberta Government. People are free to question the appropriateness of that, but the way Levant does it, let's just say, is in typical Levant style.

[frinkprof]

Yeah, "when did you stop beating your wife?" is a pretty common - probably the most common of any - response to call out a loaded question. Personally, I think it's more effectively worded as "do you still beat your wife?"

[Slava]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

You don't think asking someone when he quit beating his wife on a public forum like twitter isn't something that he should apologize for? Come on Slava, if the shoe was on the other foot you'd be demanding a public flogging and apology.

Shouldn't we expect more from our mayor then childish rants and completely off side bursts of spazziness.

The fact is the 'when did you stop beating your wife?' question here is basically a figure of speech. It reminds me of the 'lipstick on a pig' comment Obama made and Palin was made that he called her a pig. Its just not the case. Everyone knows its not the case, and political correctness gone awry is the only reason anyone would think otherwise. He has no reason to apologize.

I do think that he looks bad here though, mostly because Levant will whinge and moan about this non-stop. Its a shame because Nenshi ought to know better than to get sucked in to this type of tiff to begin with.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

you know what though - maybe political science types or debate types may know that is a suggested way to deal with a loaded question, but I bet if you asked 100 people on the street, a large number would have no idea about it. Case in point - those that do know about it, watch how much you have to explain it over the next few days.

Nenshi should have known better.

I'd be incredibly surprised if 90% of the participants in this thread, the members of the Sun editorial board, Sun News commentators, staff, producers and Ezra Levant himself don't know the reference.

The few in these groups that aren't familiar are also likely to stick around for a round of responses and come to learn the meaning of "when did you stop beating your wife?"

Acknowledged is the fact that it is a charged statement, but that's exactly why it's a well-known go-to comeback and has been since long before Levant and Nenshi were even born.

Why are some playing dumb?