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Old 10-17-2021, 12:44 PM   #1
GreenLantern2814
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Default Jacob Markstrom (is better than Cam Talbot)

I haven’t had an issue with Markstrom’s play as a Flame for the most part, but I have to ask.

Is he actually any good?

Last season, his 2.66 GAA put him in a 25th-place tie with Optimus Reimer. His save percentage of .904 was 38th.

Note* - All stats are for goalies with 20+ starts, according to quanthockey.

His final year in Vancouver:

2.75 GAA (27th, tied with Koskinen)
.918 save % (14th)

18/19

2.77 GAA (27th)
.912 save % (27th)

17/18

2.71 GAA (28th)
0.912 save % (31st)

16/17

2.63 GAA (29th)
.910 save % (36th)

To make matters worse, the Flames employed at least one goalie who was statistically superior each of these seasons - sometimes it was both.

Markstrom’s best attribute seems to be his durability - he can play 60 games.

Beyond that, he’s nothing special.

They should have kept Talbot.
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Last edited by GreenLantern2814; 11-19-2021 at 11:41 PM.
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Old 10-17-2021, 12:46 PM   #2
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He's not awful, but he's not a difference-maker. If you have a stacked team he can be your Chris Osgood
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Old 10-17-2021, 12:47 PM   #3
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He's better than he's shown in the last half of his Flames tenure so far.

But I would have been happy with Talbot and Rittich going forward for a few years.
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Old 10-17-2021, 12:47 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by GranteedEV View Post
He's not awful, but he's not a difference-maker. If you have a stacked team he can be your Chris Osgood
Lmao, except when he literally carried the Canucks on his back. Not a difference maker...some of the posts in here are just reaching for negativity.
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Old 10-17-2021, 12:48 PM   #5
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He's the best goalie the Flames have had since Kiprusoff. That said I always thought it was weird that Treliving wanted Talbot so bad, got him, then gave him away to get Markstrom on the heels of poor coaching from a guy who they didn't keep anyway.
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Old 10-17-2021, 12:53 PM   #6
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I hope this post ages like I think it will

He has played on terrible teams...carried the Canucks and was their MVP for 3 seasons. 4th in Vezina voting and ranked 6th best goalie in the NHL in the GM poll.

Last year he stole basically every win they had in the first month...wasn't the same after the injury but really...maybe let's give it more than one game with PP goals and bounces against.
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Old 10-17-2021, 12:56 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by dissentowner View Post
Lmao, except when he literally carried the Canucks on his back. Not a difference maker...some of the posts in here are just reaching for negativity.
Exactly...Canucks made the playoffs and won the play in and round one because of Markstrom. Demko had worse numbers that season playing in front of the same team.
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Old 10-17-2021, 01:06 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toonage View Post
He's the best goalie the Flames have had since Kiprusoff. That said I always thought it was weird that Treliving wanted Talbot so bad, got him, then gave him away to get Markstrom on the heels of poor coaching from a guy who they didn't keep anyway.
Career #s for both guys:

Talbot:

335 starts
171-130-30
2.60 GAA
.915 save %
24 shutouts
177 Quality starts
.528 quality start %
63.4 Goalie Point shares
41 Really Bad Starts (save % < .850)

Markstrom:

300 starts
132-138-34
2.79 GAA
.910 save %
8 shutouts
156 quality starts
.520 quality start %
51.3 Goalie Point Shares
45 Really Bad Starts


I think the best goalie the Flames have had since Kiprusoff is Talbot.
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Old 10-17-2021, 01:11 PM   #9
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Really bad starts is my favorite stat
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Old 10-17-2021, 01:12 PM   #10
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We just can't buy a break with goalies.

Even Talbot #### the bed against Dallas in the last couple games.

His overall body of work was solid but he struggled when it mattered most.

Markstrom stole a number of games for the Canucks in the bubble, against the defending champs, no less. So I still have faith in this guy. If he's 20th ranked in the regular season but ramps it up for the POs like he did for Vancouver then ill be more than okay with it.
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Old 10-17-2021, 01:13 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814 View Post
Career #s for both guys:

Talbot:

335 starts
171-130-30
2.60 GAA
.915 save %
24 shutouts
177 Quality starts
.528 quality start %
63.4 Goalie Point shares
41 Really Bad Starts (save % < .850)

Markstrom:

300 starts
132-138-34
2.79 GAA
.910 save %
8 shutouts
156 quality starts
.520 quality start %
51.3 Goalie Point Shares
45 Really Bad Starts


I think the best goalie the Flames have had since Kiprusoff is Talbot.
Markstrom has played behind worse teams
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Old 10-17-2021, 01:13 PM   #12
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Talbot, it’s worth mentioning, has these numbers DESPITE the Edmonton Oilers doing everything in their power to break him for two years in 17 and 18.

So I don’t want to hear about how awful Vancouver was. They would have been better with Talbot too.
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Old 10-17-2021, 01:16 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814 View Post
Talbot, it’s worth mentioning, has these numbers DESPITE the Edmonton Oilers doing everything in their power to break him for two years in 17 and 18.

So I don’t want to hear about how awful Vancouver was. They would have been better with Talbot too.
Okay, you are obviously biased... Vancouver was ridiculously bad defensively and in a full rebuild most of his time there. Talbot blew an elimination game by allowing every scoring chance in the net after having a 3-0 lead
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Old 10-17-2021, 01:17 PM   #14
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Vancouver was putrid. But playing a couple years behind the No Goods does balance it out somewhat.
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Old 10-17-2021, 01:20 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by dino7c View Post
Okay, you are obviously biased... Vancouver was ridiculously bad defensively and in a full rebuild most of his time there
And the Oilers are the Oilers.

Talbot’s first year in Edmonton, he put up 2.55/.917 on a team that finished 25th in goals against.

Next year, they finished 8th (after playing Talbot 73 games) then right back to 25th (67 GP for Talbot) because they’re the friggen Oilers.

Cam Talbot is a better goalie than Jacob Markstrom.

Only a biased person would argue otherwise.
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Old 10-17-2021, 01:20 PM   #16
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Markstrom is not a problem. This team does not have #1D neither it has #1C and thus it's not going to compete. Rebuild. Period.
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Old 10-17-2021, 01:23 PM   #17
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I wouldn't say our D has been great, but wasn't that what he was the best at in the league? High danger save percentage? Pool-party's goal last night is a great example. He splits the pylons we had on D, gets a partial break and snaps off a wrist shot. That is a tough one to save no doubt, but I'm hoping he is best in the league at saving those.
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Old 10-17-2021, 01:23 PM   #18
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Markstrom is not a problem. This team does not have #1D neither it has #1C and thus it's not going to compete. Rebuild. Period.
Hanifin will become one
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Old 10-17-2021, 01:25 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by dino7c View Post
Markstrom has played behind worse teams
Yeah stats may say one thing, but my eye test says different.

We haven’t had a goalie this calm and positionally sound since Kipper.
He may not outright steal us games we have no right being in, but he never loses the game for us.

With Talbot/Rittich/Smith/ all the previous goalies you could just feel an easy one could go in at any time and a one goal lead would never be enough, or that we’d end up playing from behind because of a weak one.
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Old 10-17-2021, 01:26 PM   #20
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What is the point of posting these stats completely devoid of context? If you are genuinely asking if he is a good goalie, then why not dig in to it a little bit with an open mind?

Unless you were completely disengaged watching last season, you know that he had a mid-season injury that completely altered his results. Posting an overall season number is something that TSN would do because they don't know much about the Flames.

Borrowing this from @RingofFireCGY:
Jacob Markstrom
Jan 14 - Feb 17 (League Rank in Brackets)
8-5-1
Save %: .933 (6th)
GAA: 2.11 (11th)
Goals Saved Above Average: 5.09 (3rd)
High Danger Save%: .849% (8th)

Feb 17 - April 23
8-11-1
Save %: .895 (47th)
GAA:2.63 (34th)
Goals Saved Above Average: -9.28 (48th)
High Danger Save%: .747% (49th)

April 23 - May 20
6-3-0
Save %: .937 (2nd)
GAA: 1.63 (2nd)
Goals Saved Above Average: 4.24 (2nd)
High Danger Save%: .838% (8th)

And when Markstrom was the Canucks starting goalie, it seems he did pretty well:

Quote:
After a season that put him in the Vezina Trophy conversation for some, Jacob Markstrom has been named Canucks MVP for a second straight season. He’s the first back-to-back winner of this award since Roberto Luongo, who was named team MVP during his first two seasons in Vancouver (2007 and 2008).

The backbone of the team on most nights, Markstrom also won the Three Star Award, for most Three Star selections.
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/canu...awards-winners

Quote:
Markstrom is being peppered on a nightly basis and has made 30-plus saves on 19 different occasions. The Canucks have surrendered the seventh-most amount of shots in the league this season yet rank 14th best when it comes to goals allowed (3.02 GAA/ GP). This has largely been due to Markstrom outduelling the opposing team's netminder and propelling his team to victory on a nightly basis. In fact, when you look at Markstrom's 22 victories this season, the Canucks only outshot their opponent in seven of those games.
Quote:
Markstrom's 22 wins are sixth most among all NHL goalies this season, while his .918 save percentage is 15th best (minimum 10 GP). To really get an idea of just how good Markstrom has been, you have to dive a little deeper into the stats. "GSAA" - Goals Saved Above Average is a stat that that calculates the number of goals allowed by a goaltender compared to the number of goals that would have been allowed by a league average goalie. Markstrom's 11.87 GSAA is 10th best overall and ranks him sixth best among all NHL goaltenders who have played at least 30 games.

Markstrom is also thriving when it comes to high-danger chances. The Canucks tend to surrender plenty of high-quality chances in prime scoring areas and Markstrom has been been equal to the task. The Canucks' netminder has faced the fifth-most high danger shots in the league (356) and his .843 HDSV% is eighth best among all NHL goalies. He's bailing the Canucks out of costly defensive mistakes and coming up big when it's needed the most.
https://www.nhl.com/canucks/news/van...om/c-315267702

I really like Markstrom and think he is the best goalie they have had since Kipper. Hopefully he has such a great season that the doubters come around on him, but I'm really comfortable with the Flames goaltending and consider it a strength of the team.
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