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Old 09-17-2015, 12:21 PM   #21
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Did they at least acknowledge that this summer was not full of the usual gawd-awful contracts that the UFAs tend to receive?
I don't think what Calgary did was anywhere close to terrible. Same goes for Colorado, for that matter.
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Old 09-17-2015, 12:40 PM   #22
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ESPN.....diverse mega-panel of 34 prominent hockey statisticians.....ROFL
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Old 09-17-2015, 12:46 PM   #23
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While it is ESPN, article is written by Rob Vollman. A guy who Rob Kerr brings on Fan 960 regularly.
And he talked about it yesterday. I actually enjoy the perspective Vollman brings...anywho, Ramo and Bouma were among the worst, but he did qualify this by saying they were the worst amongst a pretty good year for signings. They both received below 50% approval from the "panel" with Ramo being pretty bad at around 20% iirc. Bouma was around 37% approval.
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Old 09-17-2015, 01:09 PM   #24
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And he talked about it yesterday. I actually enjoy the perspective Vollman brings...anywho, Ramo and Bouma were among the worst, but he did qualify this by saying they were the worst amongst a pretty good year for signings. They both received below 50% approval from the "panel" with Ramo being pretty bad at around 20% iirc. Bouma was around 37% approval.
So basically the panel is full of idiots?
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Old 09-17-2015, 01:16 PM   #25
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not to mention asset management.

if the Flames deal either veteran goaltender for anything they have added value versus letting a guy go
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Old 09-17-2015, 01:18 PM   #26
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Ah... I can see the Bouma signing being on the list. Ramo... its not he's being paid that much and its only 1 year... who cares.
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Old 09-17-2015, 01:33 PM   #27
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When I think about "bad deals" it is all about how it hurts the organization going forward.
So let's play this out.
- If Ramo isn't good, they walk away after this season. They have the cap space this year. No tangible cost
- If Bouma isn't good it isn't a long-term deal either and at most he is overpaid by a few hundred K. Big deal.

If indeed these represent the "worst" deals - then perhaps the headline and focus of the story should have been how GMs learned from past lessons and didn't hand out bad deals.

That being said - I'm also not an insider so didn't read it.
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Old 09-17-2015, 01:52 PM   #28
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FYI -contributors to the panel were Clare Austin, Steve Burtch, Matt Cane, Scott Cullen, John Fischer, Iain Fyffe, Domenic Galamini, Garik16, David Johnson, Cam Lawrence, Dom Luszczyszyn, Jen Lute Costella, Alexandra Mandrycky, Micah Blake McCurdy, Sean McIndoe, Nick Mercadante, Allan "Lowetide" Mitchell, Phil Myrland, Arik Parnass, Christophe Perreault, Megan Richardson, Alan Ryder, Michael Schuckers, Timo Seppa, Greg Sinclair, Dawson Sprigings, Ryan Stimson, Craig Tabita, Andrew Thomas, Robb Tufts, Josh Weissbock, Carolyn Wilke, Kent Wilson.

I really think the opening didn't convey the extent to which that GMs really controlled spending this year. Should have compared to past years excess.

I'm totally ok with Bouma and Ramo deals as relatively minor overpay when considering that Ramo might be the #1 and Bouma is a heart and soul guy who is making slightly more than his stats would say he is worth.
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Old 09-17-2015, 01:53 PM   #29
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This is simply ridiculous.

San Jose signed a 34 year old defenceman to a 4-year $4.9m contract, and gave a 34 year old Joel Ward a three year $3.3m contract.

They didn't make a single good free agent acquisition.

But somehow Calgary came out way worse because after acquiring one of the top free agent wingers, they renewed their 1b goalie to a one year "show me" contract, and overpaid a depth player by about $500k?

Laughable.
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Old 09-17-2015, 01:56 PM   #30
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So it was a diverse mega-panel of 34 prominent hockey statisticians...and Scott Cullen showed up before the closed the door so they let him stay
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Old 09-17-2015, 02:03 PM   #31
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So it was a diverse mega-panel of 34 prominent hockey statisticians...and Scott Cullen showed up before the closed the door so they let him stay
Cullen was the only name I recognized
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Old 09-17-2015, 02:06 PM   #32
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Cullen was the only name I recognized
Just off the top of my head, I recognized Fyffe, McIndoe, and Wilson. Fyffe is a very shrewd guy, and was doing interesting statistical work on hockey years before it became fashionable. McIndoe, on the other hand, is not someone I think of as a stats guy at all. I think of him as Down Goes Brown.
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Old 09-17-2015, 02:19 PM   #33
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Ah... I can see the Bouma signing being on the list. Ramo... its not he's being paid that much and its only 1 year... who cares.
Yeah, but I see the point... spending 3.8M on your second goalie isn't very efficient spending. So taken in a vacumn it makes perfect sense. It's when you factor in the stuff outside the value/dollar aspect that the deal looks better in that it was effectively cap space that would be entirely left fallow anyways and has no negative consequences since it doesn't represent any future hinderance.
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Old 09-17-2015, 02:20 PM   #34
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This is simply ridiculous.

San Jose signed a 34 year old defenceman to a 4-year $4.9m contract, and gave a 34 year old Joel Ward a three year $3.3m contract.

They didn't make a single good free agent acquisition.

But somehow Calgary came out way worse because after acquiring one of the top free agent wingers, they renewed their 1b goalie to a one year "show me" contract, and overpaid a depth player by about $500k?

Laughable.
FFWIW, the criteria (off the top of my head) was it had to be a RFA or UFA signing after July 1st over $2MM a year. So Bieksa would not have been part of that although Joel Ward would have been. And, I agree, the Joel Ward is far worse than the Bouma. I was never a fan of the Ramo signing, but that's because I'm overly optimistic about Ortio.

Oh, and it wasn't a team evaluation, just an individual contract evaluation. The Frolik signing is probably rated pretty high (I can't read the article, just going off of the radio talk).
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Old 09-17-2015, 02:24 PM   #35
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I love Bouma and I'm glad he's on the team. But the Flames overpaid on that deal. It is far from crippling I was surprised at the dollar and term.
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Old 09-17-2015, 02:32 PM   #36
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Flames didn't overpay for Bouma. But whatever.

I listened to Vollman talk about this on the FAN yesterday. First of all, he did mention several times that there really weren't ANY horrible contracts this year.

He talked about how term was far more dangerous than money and it was term that gets teams in trouble. Then he talked about the 3rd worst contract being Ramo's $3.8M and never mentioned that it was only one year.

I agree that $3.8M was too much for Ramo.

But if that is the worst FA signing we see here, the Flames are in good hands.
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Old 09-17-2015, 02:46 PM   #37
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One year deals that don't handicap you in the current season should never be considered a bad deal. It's not your money, what do you care.
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Old 09-17-2015, 02:49 PM   #38
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As you can guess by the "diverse" panel of statisticians, Rob Vollman is an analytics guy. So, as usual, he and his echo chamber/panel are looking at things exclusively on the basis of what their spreadsheet says without regard to anything Excel can't tell them.
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Old 09-17-2015, 02:51 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Jay Random View Post
Just off the top of my head, I recognized Fyffe, McIndoe, and Wilson. Fyffe is a very shrewd guy, and was doing interesting statistical work on hockey years before it became fashionable. McIndoe, on the other hand, is not someone I think of as a stats guy at all. I think of him as Down Goes Brown.
Not a stats guy, but he clearly knows hockey pretty well, and once you cut through all of the jokes he actually has well-informed hockey analysis.
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Old 09-17-2015, 02:54 PM   #40
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They used Griess and McElhinney as examples of Goalies with comparable, but better save percentages, over the same period that signed for less then 2 million.
Anyone who watches hockey and knows a little bit about goaltending know there are numerous reasons these two guys are constantly a foot away from the AHL.

If the Flames had signed one of these two guys and expect him to stay in the NHL all year I can almost guarantee the playoffs go out the window.
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