Toronto Blue Jays - Offseason Thread

[bluejays]

Cecil was very aggravating at times, but it wasn't because of his own ability, but it was because of injuries. I really hope things work out for him, and part of me really wanted him back (because there isn't much out there), but the price the cards paid is a little on the high side for a 2 inning RP. Hope he bounces back.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Skaloper

I didn't mind Cecil either but for that money I think there might be better options.

Doubt it... IMO the only better LHR on the market is Chapman. That's an outrageous price for a reliever but in line with what they've gotten over the past few years. Which is crazy considering the year to year volatility relievers are prone to.

I figure the Jays move Liriano into the pen to fill that need and stretch Biagini out to start. Thus also filling out the dorky starter role absented by Dickey.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Doubt it... IMO the only better LHR on the market is Chapman. That's an outrageous price for a reliever but in line with what they've gotten over the past few years. Which is crazy considering the year to year volatility relievers are prone to.

I figure the Jays move Liriano into the pen to fill that need and stretch Biagini out to start. Thus also filling out the dorky starter role absented by Dickey.

I prefer having 2 lefties in the rotation myself.

[jayswin]

Bluejays are reportedly open to re-signing Saunders now. Is anyone else starting to worry a bit that our off season is starting to come to suggest a pretty mediocre team next season? When I say mediocre I mean a clear step down from these past two seasons, I know they'll still be decent, but if we rely on our pitching to be our strength then we're probably in trouble as injuries and drop offs in performance are very likely. Can't see them going two years in a row without starting pitching injuries.

I know you can point to some great moves and great pitching, but the harsh reality is that if you lose Bautista and Encarnacion's offense and don't come anywhere close to replacing it, we could be end up taking a pretty big step back, and I'm just not seeing the salary room to replace very much with how things are coming together here.

[cross16]

that is a lot of coin for Cecil. I like him but I wouldn't have gone that high for him especially with how slow he seems to start the year.

They may not get someone as good, but I think there are options out there that can get the job done for less than that. If your going to spend money in the pen I'd prefer it to be on a set up man and that wasn't Cecil.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Bluejays are reportedly open to re-signing Saunders now. Is anyone else starting to worry a bit that our off season is starting to come to suggest a pretty mediocre team next season? When I say mediocre I mean a clear step down from these past two seasons, I know they'll still be decent, but if we rely on our pitching to be our strength then we're probably in trouble as injuries and drop offs in performance are very likely. Can't see them going two years in a row without starting pitching injuries.

I know you can point to some great moves and great pitching, but the harsh reality is that if you lose Bautista and Encarnacion's offense and don't come anywhere close to replacing it, we could be end up taking a pretty big step back, and I'm just not seeing the salary room to replace very much with how things are coming together here.

Saunders wouldn't be terrible to bring back in a platoon situation as the free agent market for outfielders is pretty weak.

[bluejays]

I seen enough of Saunders as a Jay. I'd be pretty annoyed that they go back to that dance partner when they don't need to and it serves no purpose to bring him back.

[Roof-Daddy]

MLB Network RadioVerified account
‏@MLBNetworkRadio
"#Yankees are going to get either Encarnacion or Cespedes. They may get both, and that wouldn't surprise me." - @JimBowden_ESPN


Man, EE in a yankee uniform would be a whole lot of yuck

[nik-]

Better than a Red Sox uniform

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Saunders wouldn't be terrible to bring back in a platoon situation as the free agent market for outfielders is pretty weak.

His second half means he is a good buy low candidate.

His first half + second half injuries + playoff performance suggests any team should look at him for a price

I wouldn't love he signing but there could be worse LF we go after

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

MLB Network RadioVerified account
‏@MLBNetworkRadio
"#Yankees are going to get either Encarnacion or Cespedes. They may get both, and that wouldn't surprise me." - @JimBowden_ESPN


Man, EE in a yankee uniform would be a whole lot of yuck

Oh man, that's the double edged sword for the Blue Jays when deciding to move on from star players. There's like an 80% chance someone in our division will pick them up, lol.

[calculoso]

Biagini and his Tonight Show high five experience

http://m.mlb.com/cutfour/2016/11/19/...96554717042842

[TheAlpineOracle]

The second half Saunders is the real Saunders and has been his whole career. Resigning Saunders would be a real a let down in my mind. He's exactly the type of player the Jays need to rid themselves of.

I was actually a little optimistic the Jays would make some moves this off season and spend some money. This seems to be going the way of another Rogers #### show though. Nothing but a bunch of lip service so they can turn around and said they tried. As it stands today, the team is significantly weaker than it was last year. Not a good thing with the Yankees and Red Sox continually improving.

No LF, no RF, and absolutely no one in the bullpen with the market continuing to decrease. I'm really. It happy about their bullpen vacancies. Do they not remember happened last April and May. Was hopin to avoid that for the first time in two years.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by fleury

Cecil was very aggravating at times, but it wasn't because of his own ability, but it was because of injuries. I really hope things work out for him, and part of me really wanted him back (because there isn't much out there), but the price the cards paid is a little on the high side for a 2 inning RP. Hope he bounces back.

That's the price though. if you want to compete for free agents, that's what has to be paid or you end up with nothing.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

The second half Saunders is the real Saunders and has been his whole career. Resigning Saunders would be a real a let down in my mind. He's exactly the type of player the Jays need to rid themselves of.

I was actually a little optimistic the Jays would make some moves this off season and spend some money. This seems to be going the way of another Rogers #### show though. Nothing but a bunch of lip service so they can turn around and said they tried. As it stands today, the team is significantly weaker than it was last year. Not a good thing with the Yankees and Red Sox continually improving.

No LF, no RF, and absolutely no one in the bullpen with the market continuing to decrease. I'm really. It happy about their bullpen vacancies. Do they not remember happened last April and May. Was hopin to avoid that for the first time in two years.

Man, no offence but you're like a broken record in these off-season threads. It was the same last year. IIRC you liked the Happ signing, but it was nothing more than a depth signing and a typical cheapo Rogers move that was a terrible answer to not paying big money for Price. You were pretty sure they'd ruined Sanchez as a starter and that the bullpen and starting rotation were going to sink the 2016 season.

Granted, the bullpen blew a lot of games in the first couple months, but that was mostly due to Cecil's terrible start, and Storen completely blowing up as a reliever. To this management teams credit though, the rotation was absolutely stellar pretty much all year long, and they also ironed out the bullpen by acquiring Grilli and Benoit. They also added rule 5 draftee Biagini who nobody would have guessed would have had the season he did. The bullpen ended up actually being a strength of this team. Maybe they know what they're doing?

I dunno, I think the Jays FO should be given the benefit of the doubt for the time being after not overspending last off season but still building a team that went back to ALCS for a 2nd straight year.

You don't have to spend money on overpriced FA's to have a good baseball team, and overspending on FA's doesn't guarantee success either.

Also, it's not even December yet. There are other ways for them to fill holes in this roster besides overpaying a mediocre free agent crop.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Man, no offence but you're like a broken record all the god damn time

Fixed that for you.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Man, no offence but you're like a broken record in these off-season threads. It was the same last year. IIRC you liked the Happ signing, but it was nothing more than a depth signing and a typical cheapo Rogers move that was a terrible answer to not paying big money for Price. You were pretty sure they'd ruined Sanchez as a starter and that the bullpen and starting rotation were going to sink the 2016 season.

Granted, the bullpen blew a lot of games in the first couple months, but that was mostly due to Cecil's terrible start, and Storen completely blowing up as a reliever. To this management teams credit though, the rotation was absolutely stellar pretty much all year long, and they also ironed out the bullpen by acquiring Grilli and Benoit. They also added rule 5 draftee Biagini who nobody would have guessed would have had the season he did. The bullpen ended up actually being a strength of this team. Maybe they know what they're doing?

I dunno, I think the Jays FO should be given the benefit of the doubt for the time being after not overspending last off season but still building a team that went back to ALCS for a 2nd straight year.

You don't have to spend money on overpriced FA's to have a good baseball team, and overspending on FA's doesn't guarantee success either.

Also, it's not even December yet. There are other ways for them to fill holes in this roster besides overpaying a mediocre free agent crop.

Not addressing the bullpen for the second straight year last year cost them close to 20 games in the first 3 months of the season. There's no way with the way the Yankees and Red Sox are improving that they can continue to piss games away until they decide in July to fix the problem. They don't have a single major league left-handed pitcher in their entire bullpen. Moving Liriano to fill that role would be a very poor decision in my mind. He's probably a 14-15 game winner on the Jays if he picks up where he left off. Jays are going to have to continue to rely on their great starting 5 even more as the offence continues to erode.

Are you suggesting we should be fine starting our season with Kevin Pillar, Melvin Upton, Dalton Pompey, and Justin Smoak in our outfield and 1st base positions? Not saying it's going to be that way just yet, but i'm not willing to give that lineup the benefit of the doubt as you are.

If not free agents, how do you suggest they fill these holes? The cupboards are bare. They aren't exactly flush with prospects to deal and I highly doubt they are willing to give up Guerrero or Gurriel which is what most teams would be looking for. At least I hope they are not. I haven't been as excited for a Jays prospect as much as I am with Guerrero since Carlos Delgado.

[Cappy]

It's still so early in the offseason, the jays have missed out on one player - Josh Reddick. that's it.

No one else has really signed worth signing.

I would hold judgment until spring training with respect to how the offseason goes.

In terms of the bullpen last season, i thought they did a pretty good job trying to patch it up. Drew Storen, Morales, etc.

Relievers are generally a fickle bunch, so the fact that some didnt pan out isnt really the fault of the front office.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

Not addressing the bullpen for the second straight year last year cost them close to 20 games in the first 3 months of the season.

ROTFLMAO!

Oh man... that is the funniest thing I've seen all day. Really? 20 Games?

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.asp...ter=&players=0

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Parallex

ROTFLMAO!

Oh man... that is the funniest thing I've seen all day. Really? 20 Games?

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.asp...ter=&players=0

Not sure how that link disproves his thoughts.


Full season, the Jays bullpen lost 32 games, second most in the Majors.

1st half, the Jays bullpen lost 20 games, also second most in the Majors.
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.asp...ers=0&sort=3,a


The 'pen is definitely an area they could improve upon.