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Old 09-20-2020, 11:46 AM   #1
undercoverbrother
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https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2020/09/...lgbt-children/

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Pope Francis on Wednesday told a group of parents of LGBT children that God loves them as they are, and that the Church loves them because they are “children of God.”

Avvenire quotes participants as saying that Francis welcomed them in a “tranquil and cordial way,” and assured them that “the Church does not exclude them because it loves them deeply.”

Grassi told Francis that they wanted to create a “bridge to the Church, so that the Church too can change its way of looking at our children, no longer excluding them but fully welcoming them.”
A step in the right direction for an organization that has a lot of bridges to mend.


Edit, FFS, I should just keep my opinion of religion and religious organizations the same. Fair tails of the weak.
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Old 09-20-2020, 12:18 PM   #2
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Pope Francis is probably the saving grace for that religion.
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Old 09-20-2020, 03:56 PM   #3
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No, this has been the Catholics' Church position for awhile now. God made people as they are, including being LGBT+. What the Church and Francis don't allow/agree with is for them to act on it, no marriage, no sex, no adoption. He compares it to be angry. It's not a sin to be angry, it's a sin to punch someone because you are. That's his metaphor for homosexuality.

Pope Francis is a two-faced politician. Not a spiritual leader.
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Old 09-20-2020, 04:31 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen View Post
No, this has been the Catholics' Church position for awhile now. God made people as they are, including being LGBT+. What the Church and Francis don't allow/agree with is for them to act on it, no marriage, no sex, no adoption. He compares it to be angry. It's not a sin to be angry, it's a sin to punch someone because you are. That's his metaphor for homosexuality.

Pope Francis is a two-faced politician. Not a spiritual leader.
yes my fundy friends always claim that they dont hate gays just the sin, they never seem to have an answer when I ask them why God decided to randomly eff over 5 to 10% of the population by making it impossible for them to lead a fullfilling emotional and sexual life then, that god seems to be kind of a dick.
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Old 09-20-2020, 05:29 PM   #5
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yes my fundy friends always claim that they dont hate gays just the sin, they never seem to have an answer when I ask them why God decided to randomly eff over 5 to 10% of the population by making it impossible for them to lead a fullfilling emotional and sexual life then, that god seems to be kind of a dick.
That's rookie-level theology. The most basic retort is that God and his ways are inscrutable. We are not complex or sufficiently advanced enough to grasp why God has not created a level biological/psychological/sociological playing field, any more than a fruitfly is to know why his kind is not tolerated on my kitchen counter.

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Old 09-20-2020, 05:44 PM   #6
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Seems to me the best thing for the Church would be to encourage same sex couples to tie the knot together.

For everyone, really.

I fee like in the quest to reduce teenage pregnancy, we’ve raised an entire generation for whom the idea of getting married and raising a child is positively traumatic.

Getting married is good.

Having kids is good.

These are the sorts of things that, generally, force you to grow up and stop being so goddamn selfish.

They’re to be encouraged.
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Old 09-20-2020, 05:56 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by afc wimbledon View Post
yes my fundy friends always claim that they dont hate gays just the sin, they never seem to have an answer when I ask them why God decided to randomly eff over 5 to 10% of the population by making it impossible for them to lead a fullfilling emotional and sexual life then, that god seems to be kind of a dick.
The pope is clearly looking at the forecasts for the P&L, so it was time to make a strategic shift.
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Old 09-20-2020, 06:18 PM   #8
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That's rookie-level theology. The most basic retort is that God and his ways are inscrutable. We are not complex or sufficiently advanced enough to grasp why God has not created a level biological/psychological/sociological playing field, any more than a fruitfly is to know why his kind is not tolerated on my kitchen counter.

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still makes God dick even if we cant understand why he/she/it's a dick, and if Gods a dick is God then a God?
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Old 09-20-2020, 06:47 PM   #9
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still makes God dick even if we cant understand why he/she/it's a dick, and if Gods a dick is God then a God?
He could be. Why not?
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Old 09-20-2020, 08:17 PM   #10
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still makes God dick even if we cant understand why he/she/it's a dick, and if Gods a dick is God then a God?
What sort of God is characterized by “not being a dick”?

Read some mythology.
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Old 09-20-2020, 08:29 PM   #11
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They rode the wave of bigotry and hatred for as long as they could, and have only recently changed course because they realize that they have to, in order to avoid fizzling away and becoming irrelevant.

A sincere about-face? Doubful.
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Old 09-20-2020, 11:24 PM   #12
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He could be. Why not?
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Old 09-20-2020, 11:31 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814 View Post
Seems to me the best thing for the Church would be to encourage same sex couples to tie the knot together.

For everyone, really.

I fee like in the quest to reduce teenage pregnancy, we’ve raised an entire generation for whom the idea of getting married and raising a child is positively traumatic.

Getting married is good.

Having kids is good.

These are the sorts of things that, generally, force you to grow up and stop being so goddamn selfish.

They’re to be encouraged.
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Old 09-20-2020, 11:46 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen View Post
No, this has been the Catholics' Church position for awhile now. God made people as they are, including being LGBT+. What the Church and Francis don't allow/agree with is for them to act on it, no marriage, no sex, no adoption. He compares it to be angry. It's not a sin to be angry, it's a sin to punch someone because you are. That's his metaphor for homosexuality.

Pope Francis is a two-faced politician. Not a spiritual leader.
God made people? Like Adam and Eve? Sorry but I can't get with this program.
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Old 09-21-2020, 02:57 AM   #15
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This pope has been a good dude for a while and even outsiders have seen him as being more progressive. But the Catholic church is most definitely not moving in the right direction as a whole. Not as long as sexual allegations of child rape keep happening and they simply shuffle the deck chairs to hide it. Not as long as a bunch of old men refuse to let a fellow human become a priest simply because they have a vagina between their legs. Not as long as sex is continued to be viewed as improper unless you are married. Not as long as you can only receive certain sacraments from the church because you had water poured on your head as a baby. Don't even get started on their stance on gay marriage, LGBTQ rights, birth control, abortions, etc. The list goes on and on. Not even a progressive pope like this one can fix those things as long as the long list of ideologies continues to be pushed by the clergy.

It has maintained control over it's followers for centuries and will continue to do the same for centuries more because "God" and the control they enjoy over their followers. I say this as someone who grew up going to Catholic church/school and still have many Catholic family members and friends; the Catholic church is by far the most corrupt entity in the history of humanity.

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Old 09-21-2020, 09:35 AM   #16
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God made people? Like Adam and Eve? Sorry but I can't get with this program.
It’s a myth, buddy.

Sorta how Sesame Street isn’t really about a giant hairy elephant residing in an urban environment, the story of Adam and Eve is not about a magical, wish-granting genie creating the first two humans.

That may be what happens in the story, but it isn’t what it’s about.
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Old 09-21-2020, 09:38 AM   #17
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Pope Francis is probably the saving grace for that religion.
I thought it was Christ's message?

Anyway, amazing move by the Pope.
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Old 09-21-2020, 09:43 AM   #18
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This pope has been a good dude for a while and even outsiders have seen him as being more progressive. But the Catholic church is most definitely not moving in the right direction as a whole. Not as long as sexual allegations of child rape keep happening and they simply shuffle the deck chairs to hide it. Not as long as a bunch of old men refuse to let a fellow human become a priest simply because they have a vagina between their legs. Not as long as sex is continued to be viewed as improper unless you are married. Not as long as you can only receive certain sacraments from the church because you had water poured on your head as a baby. Don't even get started on their stance on gay marriage, LGBTQ rights, birth control, abortions, etc. The list goes on and on. Not even a progressive pope like this one can fix those things as long as the long list of ideologies continues to be pushed by the clergy.

It has maintained control over it's followers for centuries and will continue to do the same for centuries more because "God" and the control they enjoy over their followers. I say this as someone who grew up going to Catholic church/school and still have many Catholic family members and friends; the Catholic church is by far the most corrupt entity in the history of humanity.
My son's FIL is what I would call a "rabid" Catholic. He talks about religion constantly. My son doesn't believe in religion. It causes a LOT of conflict between them. My son and my grandson are both "going to hell" because they are not baptized. Actually I would not be surprised if he has snuck the baby to church to get him baptized without my son knowing about it, if that is something he could do.
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Old 09-21-2020, 09:45 AM   #19
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They rode the wave of bigotry and hatred for as long as they could, and have only recently changed course because they realize that they have to, in order to avoid fizzling away and becoming irrelevant.

A sincere about-face? Doubful.
The news in the OP is not a change in dogma or structure. In fact, nothing has changed. So it's not even a insincere about-face. It's a nothing statement.

Every pope would have said you are supposed to love sinners. Most popes were just less humanistic than this one, which I concede is a step in the right direction.

However, they need to do a massive purge of the molesters and of the protectors of the molesters before I take them seriously on any subject. Even if you are left with 100 good people, you do it and rebuild. You can stream your mass services right from Rome to people around the world. Until this problem is abolished, they have no credibility to talk about other subjects like abortion, LGBT, social justice or environmentalism.
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Old 09-21-2020, 10:00 AM   #20
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