[PGT] Blues 5, Flames 3

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by traptor

Organizational culture matters but it extends beyond rebuilding=bad.

Organizational culture is everyone being on the same page, people buying in, feeling like theyre making an impact and pulling in the same direction.
A team of young up and coming players could have a better culture then a group of grizzled mercenary vets, even if the young team is currently lower in the standings.

Same as some fortune 500 companies have terrible corporate cultures and some small/medium sized businesses and startups have the great cultures.


I fully believe you can maintain a strong culture through a rebuild.

You can also have a ####ty culture while trying to compete.

That only lasts for so long before you’re a systematic loser and your young saviours aren’t young anymore. Then the cycle of being a loser repeats itself.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

What matters even more is pulling in the right direction. In particular: to play a good defensive game takes great effort, practice, teamwork, and moreover, experience in dealing with errors and unforeseen situations. You can get that experience with the help of experienced players who have a track record of successful play, or you can do it the hard way.

Coaches can teach how to play a system, but they aren't on the ice to show by example how to react when breakdowns occur.

Look at Connor McDavid. If he's on the ice and one of his teammates makes a defensive mistake, he often suffers a ‘controller disconnect’ moment. At the beginning of his career, sound defence was not part of the Oilers' culture, and he had nobody to learn from by example. By the time they brought in players who could have shown him what to do, he was the captain and simply snubbed anyone who thought they had anything to teach. So at critical moments in games, you'll see him coasting back into his zone, neither moving his feet nor trying to break up the play, just watching the other team score.

That's what a loss of organizational culture gets you.

I haven't the faintest idea of how this minor leaguer Knoblauch is getting the best defensive systems play out of that group that has shown in the McCoaster era. None of it adds up, especially with the alleged locker room noise around Kane/Draisaitl. They should be more run and gun and disorganized than ever.

They'll still be bested by good teams at even strength, but the way that group has limited damage against is perplexing. It's certainly not in their organizational culture as you say.

I'm going to go with "just an illusion" which will crumple in a few weeks like clockwork.

[Lanny'sDaMan]

At least we got this from tonight!

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by shadowlord

Are the Flames intentionally tanking? Or are they truly trying to win?

I have accepted that we won't make the playoffs, but these losses eat away at my soul.

It doesn’t matter what your intentions are when 25 other teams have better players.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

I haven't the faintest idea of how this minor leaguer Knoblauch is getting the best defensive systems play out of that group that has shown in the McCoaster era. None of it adds up, especially with the alleged locker room noise around Kane/Draisaitl. They should be more run and gun and disorganized than ever.

They'll still be bested by good teams at even strength, but the way that group has limited damage against is perplexing. It's certainly not in their organizational culture as you say.

I'm going to go with "just an illusion" which will crumple in a few weeks like clockwork.

Partly, of course, they've been riding a hot goalie. And part of it, of course, is luck: you don't get a 16-game winning streak without being lucky.

But I think a lot of it is that they've imported coachable players who got their experience in better organizations than the Oilers. Hyman was already 29 when he signed in Edmonton, Foegele came from a winning system in Carolina, Janmark came through Dallas and Vegas, Derek Ryan was a wily old defensive forward (as Flames fans knew). On the blue line, Ekholm learned everything the Predators had to teach him about defensive play.

In the process, the Oilers became one of the oldest teams in the league. They benefited from the experience of better organizations by importing their veteran players. The homegrown stars (plus Kane) still have the same 10-cent heads they always had, but they're reinforced by guys who know enough to buy what Knoblauch is selling.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Lanny'sDaMan

At least we got this from tonight!

He looks like he does that in his sleep.

So impressive. If only he could tap into that with a bit more frequency.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Partly, of course, they've been riding a hot goalie. And part of it, of course, is luck: you don't get a 16-game winning streak without being lucky.

But I think a lot of it is that they've imported coachable players who got their experience in better organizations than the Oilers. Hyman was already 29 when he signed in Edmonton, Foegele came from a winning system in Carolina, Janmark came through Dallas and Vegas, Derek Ryan was a wily old defensive forward (as Flames fans knew). On the blue line, Ekholm learned everything the Predators had to teach him about defensive play.

In the process, the Oilers became one of the oldest teams in the league. They benefited from the experience of better organizations by importing their veteran players. The homegrown stars (plus Kane) still have the same 10-cent heads they always had, but they're reinforced by guys who know enough to buy what Knoblauch is selling.

Skinner's been better in the second half but I think he's getting more help than he was before.

There are still a lot of home grown rotten apples that went through the inept Oilers development system (to say there is one might be giving them too much credit), but maybe you're right and the "right" guys from superior external systems have seized the leadership in the room.

If they're listening to the right players it probably pulls them in a better direction than they were before. Too bad. I preferred the disorganized tug of war and collection of individuals & cliques that was the Oilers earlier on. The old, nothing earned and everything given (if you were drafted high!)

Thankfully the window has one calendar year remaining and they took too long to reach this point.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by shadowlord

Are the Flames intentionally tanking? Or are they truly trying to win?

I have accepted that we won't make the playoffs, but these losses eat away at my soul.

Of course they're not intentionally tanking. They know they're done though so it has to be hard staying motivated for the whole game knowing a win won't matter.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Thankfully the window has one calendar year remaining and they took too long to reach this point.

Also, the guys who know how to play winning hockey are nearly all over 30, and there is really no young talent on the roster to learn from them.

There's a saying, ‘The future belongs to those who show up.’ Who's going to show up for the Oilers a couple of years from now?

[Draug]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Its stock should jump in three years when it matters.

Having the league's newest facilities will count for something.

The organization should have a strong contingent of young talent on the roster by then as well. If the drafting goes well, they should be seen as an up and comer.

Newest building in Canada, which seems to do everything half-assed when it comes to the 1% elite lifestyle .... and then add to it our completely punative tax structure.

If we become a destination for players, it will be because we have the best chance to win. Everything else is likely a drawback.

[Tsawwassen]

Post game links
https://fieldlevelmedia.com/news/blu...d-flames-skid/
https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/games/41973231/
https://www.foxsports.com/nhl/calgar...boxscore-41165
https://www.espn.com/nhl/game/_/game...3/flames-blues