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Old 07-09-2018, 12:28 PM   #21
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if there's one thing I've learned from Rian Johnson, Kathleen Kennedy, JJ Abrams, and movie news articles, it's that I don't like TLJ because I'm a racist misogynist entitled nerd fanboy. this is good information to know.
I dont know, I think there are certainly valid reasons to dislike the current crop of Star Wars without descending into the Racist, Misogynist Nerd category.

They really are laying that on kind of thick.

That being said however, there are people within that demographic who have effectively been harassing the cast for their various perceived reasons.

Whether they dont like a black character, or female leads or an Asian sidekick (which, lets be fair, it doesnt matter what ethnicity or gender Rose is she didnt need to be in that movie period) and again that vocal minority are the ones being heard.

Its similar to being unable to say that you didnt like Wonder Woman because other than a great performance from Gal Gadot it was fairly vacuous and superficial, but oh no! You just didnt like it because you're a misogynist.

This is what society has come to. You cant have a genuine opinion or reason for disliking something without someone being able to twist that to their own ends.
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Old 07-09-2018, 12:33 PM   #22
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I've never understood the hate for TLJ. It seemed to have started as some online anti-Disney movement that snowballed into a big anti Star Wars backlash.

Leia flying through space was weird and dumb, but other than that, it was a better movie than Force Awakens and the prequels.

The Force Awakens was a nice movie for its nostalgia, and it was fun to see Han again, but it was a rather dull and tired story that is not very watchable at all.
Honestly you have to be a really big Star Wars fanboy not to see just how bad TLJ is. It's mediocre/bad from beginning to end. I think the prequels were better overall films (had Lucas casted a more polished and charismatic actor to play Anakin Skywalker I feel those movies may not be looked on nearly as bad as Hayden Christensen is one of the worst actors in the history of Hollywood big budget movies) and that's not a very high bar.
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Old 07-09-2018, 12:43 PM   #23
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A small minority of Star Wars fans also hated Jake Lloyd, sending him death threats, etc., eventually leading to him quitting acting.

It's unfortunate that the actors are taking the brunt of the criticism (though Christensen isn't a good actor, he has taken well to the criticisms), but it doesn't give me much confidence in Episode 8 when the director of TLJ is frequently calling critics Nazis and racists on his twitter when that's not actually why he created a bad movie.
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Old 07-09-2018, 12:47 PM   #24
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Or maybe people just liked it.

The most tired part of this whole thing is the never ending whining of people who didn't like it. Ok we get it, just move on. Let the rest of us who enjoyed it enjoy it.

The idea that it was objectively bad or that it is some grand anti SJW conspiracy is beyond stupid.

Who hates a movie and then spends the next year spamming every thread that mentions it and won't shut up about how much they hated it?

You hated it! Let it go! You hated it some much that it has taken control of your life and you can't stop talking about it obsessively all the time? That's weird. Just move one.
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Old 07-09-2018, 12:50 PM   #25
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Right okay. I didn't mention anything until somebody tried to connect those who disliked the movie with some sort of anti Disney movement. Expect a response when you post something like that.

Enjoy the movie.

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Who hates a movie and then spends the next year spamming every thread that mentions it and won't shut up about how much they hated it?
Probably huge fans of the franchise who had high hopes. Nerds amirite?
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Old 07-09-2018, 12:56 PM   #26
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Right okay. I didn't mention anything until somebody tried to connect those who disliked the movie with some sort of anti Disney movement. Expect a response when you post something like that.

Enjoy the movie.

Well there was some well documented trolling surrounding this movie and its ratings/reviews.

Someone referencing backlash for this movie is not the same as calling you some insane MRA mysoginist/racist.

Both those things can be real without everyone from group a being part of group b.

I don't think the backlash is different from most cultural phenomenons. Especially ones people are passionate about. Things get popular and it becomes cool to hate on popular things. Especially when that thing is owned by Disney. People think it gets annoying. Oversaturated. That it "sells out". Some people become far too emotionally invested and their expectations/demands become out of touch with the realistic expectations.

None of that has anything to do with crazy mysoginists though. And no one mentioned that either.
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Old 07-09-2018, 01:06 PM   #27
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None of that has anything to do with crazy mysoginists though. And no one mentioned that either.
Well, when the director is chiming in because Ridley, Boyega and Tran all deleted their social media accounts due to fan vitriol then we do kind of have to acknowledge the misogynistic racists as a primary cause.
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Old 07-09-2018, 01:10 PM   #28
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I am sure this has been covered in the myriad other SW threads, but I often have to stay out of those as I catch the movies late and only skim later after I have watched them. (young kids have me out of just about all movies and tv shows. dont judge!)

With this discussion quickly devolving into judging all the movies, do you guys honestly think if the original trilogy came out in the current climate that it would survive the 24 hour news cycle / internet / trolling?

I feel like most that really love the OT get all nostalgic about it because its from their childhood and the bar was set so much lower back then. Am I way off base about that?
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Old 07-09-2018, 01:11 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger View Post
Or maybe people just liked it.
According to RT more people didn't like the movie than did.


On the original trilogy those movies hold up they are enjoyable to watch. They have a charm and honesty about them.
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Old 07-09-2018, 01:12 PM   #30
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Honestly you have to be a really big Star Wars fanboy not to see just how bad TLJ is. It's mediocre/bad from beginning to end. I think the prequels were better overall films.
Mediocre and bad for YOU, maybe. A lot of people enjoyed it, including myself and the majority of people I went to see it with.

Worse than the prequels, lol? C'mon man, that's reaching. If Star Wars fans can agree on anything, it's that those films were horrendous pieces of crap and should never be spoken of again. TLJ may not have delivered the story that you personally wanted to see on screen, but that movie is far superior to any of the prequels in pretty much every aspect of filmmaking.

Here's how I'd personally rank the movies in terms of overall quality:

Empire (of course)
A New Hope
Rogue One
Return of the Jedi
The Last Jedi
Solo
Revenge of the Sith
Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones
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Old 07-09-2018, 01:20 PM   #31
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Mediocre and bad for YOU, maybe. A lot of people enjoyed it, including myself and the majority of people I went to see it with.

Worse than the prequels, lol? C'mon man, that's reaching. If Star Wars fans can agree on anything, it's that those films were horrendous pieces of crap and should never be spoken of again. TLJ may not have delivered the story that you personally wanted to see on screen, but that movie is far superior to any of the prequels in pretty much every aspect of filmmaking.

Here's how I'd personally rank the movies in terms of overall quality:

Empire (of course)
A New Hope
Rogue One
Return of the Jedi
The Last Jedi
Solo
Revenge of the Sith
Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones

Missed one...
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Old 07-09-2018, 01:21 PM   #32
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Missed one...
Right! I'd put TFA just ahead of Solo.
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Old 07-09-2018, 01:22 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by direwolf View Post
Mediocre and bad for YOU, maybe. A lot of people enjoyed it, including myself and the majority of people I went to see it with.

Worse than the prequels, lol? C'mon man, that's reaching. If Star Wars fans can agree on anything, it's that those films were horrendous pieces of crap and should never be spoken of again. TLJ may not have delivered the story that you personally wanted to see on screen, but that movie is far superior to any of the prequels in pretty much every aspect of filmmaking.

Here's how I'd personally rank the movies in terms of overall quality:

Empire (of course)
A New Hope
Rogue One
Return of the Jedi
The Last Jedi
Solo
Revenge of the Sith
Attack of the Clones
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Phantom Menace
Fixed that for you.
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Old 07-09-2018, 01:39 PM   #34
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I dont know, I think there are certainly valid reasons to dislike the current crop of Star Wars without descending into the Racist, Misogynist Nerd category.
without a doubt there are some out there that hate TLJ because of women, minorities and unfulfilled expanded universe story lines. but they're not nearly as numerous as people keep claiming they are...they just happen to be the loudest. kind of like how you can have one terrible poster in a FOI thread, just one, but when you read it feels like the majority of people have lost their damn minds.

and of those people saying they hate the SJW agenda, I bet at least half of them aren't even extremists, they just don't know how to properly express their dissatisfaction so they just parrot what they've heard. in the franchise movie power ranking triangle of Plot, Character and Lore, TLJ had serious deficiencies in all 3 in my opinion. but it takes a lot of speaking/typing to explain all that so in some twisted way I can almost see the appeal of just yelling "SJWs ruined Star Wars!" instead.
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Old 07-09-2018, 01:44 PM   #35
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Mediocre and bad for YOU, maybe. A lot of people enjoyed it, including myself and the majority of people I went to see it with.
How many people did you see it with? I'm curious why you would use that as a data point.

Quote:
Worse than the prequels, lol? C'mon man, that's reaching. If Star Wars fans can agree on anything, it's that those films were horrendous pieces of crap and should never be spoken of again.
I'll cite RT again not because I think they are the ipso facto but they do have a large sampling. Both 'Clones and 'Menace are rated higher than TLJ.

Quote:
TLJ may not have delivered the story that you personally wanted to see on screen, but that movie is far superior to any of the prequels in pretty much every aspect of filmmaking.
According to you.

I personally think Solo is a better movie than TLJ. I hated the prequels except for 'Revenge, but I did give them credit for trying to be original and moving the narrative forward. Yes they are horribly flawed (acting, visually etc.).
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Old 07-09-2018, 02:00 PM   #36
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The further I get away from having view TLJ, the more I hate it. I didn't mind it really when I first saw it, but if you retroactively think about it at all, it's bad.

Yeah, it's a meme at this point, but god that entire Finn/Rose/Benicio Del Toro storyline was just garbage. The space-chase was garbage. The entire movie was such a structural disaster. It's definitely put me in the "I'll wait for feedback before I go see it" category for episode 9. I just barely care anymore. Their new storyline sucks.
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Old 07-09-2018, 02:06 PM   #37
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I will give it this though, the hyperdrive attack was probably the coolest looking shot in all 8 movies.
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Old 07-09-2018, 02:11 PM   #38
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The further I get away from having view TLJ, the more I hate it. I didn't mind it really when I first saw it, but if you retroactively think about it at all, it's bad.

Yeah, it's a meme at this point, but god that entire Finn/Rose/Benicio Del Toro storyline was just garbage. The space-chase was garbage. The entire movie was such a structural disaster. It's definitely put me in the "I'll wait for feedback before I go see it" category for episode 9. I just barely care anymore. Their new storyline sucks.
I'm strangely the opposite really, I found that upon first viewing I was definitely pretty disappointed, my opinion may have been tainted by people saying they didnt enjoy it, but really I think the issue was that it became very apparent rather quickly why there was such a divide of popular opinion between casual fans, the hardcores and the racist misogynists.

That being said, I really enjoyed it when I watched it at home a few months later, but thats really because I knew what was coming and could just kind of focus on other things.

It wasnt great. It wasnt dog####, but it wasnt great.

I think the best word to describe it for me is: Disappointing.

Theres so much potential, the worlds, the heroes, the villains and everything in between, there is so much potential for rich storylines and progression and its like they just werent interested, stuck with the same ol', same ol' and trucked along.

They didnt take any risks, they didnt explore new territory.

Instead they padded it with unnecessary characters doing unnecessary things and all kinds of other tripe.

I liked it. I wanted to like it. I didnt get to like it nearly as much as I wanted to, but thems the breaks.
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Old 07-09-2018, 02:13 PM   #39
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You're wrong and you should feel bad.
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Old 07-09-2018, 02:15 PM   #40
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Honestly you have to be a really big Star Wars fanboy not to see just how bad TLJ is. It's mediocre/bad from beginning to end. I think the prequels were better overall films (had Lucas casted a more polished and charismatic actor to play Anakin Skywalker I feel those movies may not be looked on nearly as bad as Hayden Christensen is one of the worst actors in the history of Hollywood big budget movies) and that's not a very high bar.
I thought it was the fanboys that hated TLJ? I saw it with my two sons who are 10 and 12 and we all enjoyed it quite a bit. Some of the hatred seems to come from the fact that it didn't give a satisfactory back-story to Snoke and Rey, but I was kind of relieved that there wasn't a cliche'd relationship that would have just seemed tiresome and cheesy.

I guess I don't get why everyone thinks that TFA was so awesome in comparison.
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