Toronto Blue Jays - Offseason Thread

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by calculoso

.. and yet this year, Dickey and Thole are in separate organizations.. almost as if Thole has worth without Dickey..

Josh Thole signed a minor league contract in an organization that has Oscar Hernandez, Chris Herrman, Chris Ianetta and Jeff Mathis ahead of him on the Depth chart. He's probably going to make 100K a year even if he sticks in AAA versus the 880K he made last year with the Jays (and the 1.750M he made the year before that).

75% of Thole's career earnings come from his years with the Blue Jays, and he's been the catcher for RA Dickey for every single one of the major league rosters he's been on accept for half a season in 2010. The guy had a major league career solely because of RA Dickey. Every MLB dollar he's earned, is because of RA Dickey.

He has no major league value without Dickey and never has. He's a minor league scrub, and i'd bet everything I own he will never see the light of day again in the MLB unless Dickey is so bad without him that Atlanta feels the need to reunite the pair to salvage some value out of the 12M they are paying Dickey.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by calculoso

.. and yet this year, Dickey and Thole are in separate organizations.. almost as if Thole has worth without Dickey..

A minor league deal with a separate organization. Is Josh Thole completely worthless without Dickey? No, of course not... the question isn't whether he has any worth period but rather whether he has standing worth at the major league level. My general opinion would be "no"... he's a quad-A depth replacement level player. He has a very niche skill that got him significant time on major league rosters, a niche skill that isn't in play in his current org as far as I know.

That's not completely worthless. As far as 3rd or 4th catchers go you could do a lot worse then having Josh Thole in your back pocket as an emergency option... but as far as 1st or 2nd catchers go you could do a whole lot better.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Parallex

That's not completely worthless. As far as 3rd or 4th catchers go you could do a lot worse then having Josh Thole in your back pocket as an emergency option... but as far as 1st or 2nd catchers go you could do a whole lot better.

I agree with you completely, especially in the last few years. His stats (and games played) were decent with the Mets and then fell off of a cliff with the Jays (especially the last couple of years). Who knows what his career will do now.

To insinuate that he would have no MLB career without Dickey though? Needs to be challenged.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by calculoso

I agree with you completely, especially in the last few years. His stats (and games played) were decent with the Mets and then fell off of a cliff with the Jays (especially the last couple of years). Who knows what his career will do now.

To insinuate that he would have no MLB career without Dickey though? Needs to be challenged.

Go ahead and challenge it. Not sure what argument you would have otherwise though. The guy existed solely to catch Dickey. The fact he's buried 5 deep in an organization that he has no chance of cracking the major league roster the minute him and Dickey are no longer on the same roster speaks volumes to his "value".

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

Josh Thole signed a minor league contract in an organization that has Oscar Hernandez, Chris Herrman, Chris Ianetta and Jeff Mathis ahead of him on the Depth chart. He's probably going to make 100K a year even if he sticks in AAA versus the 880K he made last year with the Jays (and the 1.750M he made the year before that).

If he has such little value, why wouldn't they just get a young guy to fill that spot at a lesser salary?

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

75% of Thole's career earnings come from his years with the Blue Jays, and he's been the catcher for RA Dickey for every single one of the major league rosters he's been on accept for half a season in 2010. The guy had a major league career solely because of RA Dickey. Every MLB dollar he's earned, is because of RA Dickey.

You're saying that the 114 games in 2011 and 104 games in 2012 are solely due to Dickey? Dickey must have pitched a lot in those years
http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...holejo01.shtml

Don't get me wrong.. he's not a #1 catcher and lately especially not even a #2 catcher. To completely hate on him and dismiss anything in his career like this though? Give me a break.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

Go ahead and challenge it. Not sure what argument you would have otherwise though. The guy existed solely to catch Dickey. The fact he's buried 5 deep in an organization that he has no chance of cracking the major league roster the minute him and Dickey are no longer on the same roster speaks volumes to his "value".

His value today in 2017 says nothing about his value in 2012/2013, Dickey or no Dickey.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by calculoso

His value today in 2017 says nothing about his value in 2012/2013, Dickey or no Dickey.

He made to MLB on his own i'll give him that, but every single game Josh Thole played since the end of the 2012 season is a direct result of RA Dickey. The guy would have had a two year cup of tea without Dickey on a Mets team that had no depth. He's simply not a major league player, and I'm ecstatic i'll never have to see him put on a Jays uniform again.

[Sylvanfan]

Based on the numbers he put up last year Saltalamacchia is Justin Smoak who can catch, and will cost Rogers more money because of how many letters are required for his jerseys.

I'm sure Alpine Oracle would have preferred Rogers sign a guy from say Korea or China who has a two letter last name and use the savings towards a reliever.

[REDVAN]

I'm only happy about the fact Saltalamacchia played 90+ games last year, meaning he should be able to give Martin a few more rest days earlier in the season. Last year he got worn because we only had Thole for Dickey and then later it was crunch time so obviously Martin got most of the time then.

This season he might get a few more days off before September, which will be nothing but good for Jays and Martin.

The only thing I don't like about Saltalamacchia is his low average. But he's a backup catcher, so you can't be too picky when you're upgrading from Thole.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by REDVAN

I'm only happy about the fact Saltalamacchia played 90+ games last year, meaning he should be able to give Martin a few more rest days earlier in the season. Last year he got worn because we only had Thole for Dickey and then later it was crunch time so obviously Martin got most of the time then.

This season he might get a few more days off before September, which will be nothing but good for Jays and Martin.

The only thing I don't like about Saltalamacchia is his low average. But he's a backup catcher, so you can't be too picky when you're upgrading from Thole.

While his average is low (not really that low for a backup catcher) he has a decent OPS and has had a relatively good one for most of his career. The guy walks. He's not an automatic out like our friend Thole.

Not sure why Sylvanfan is comparing him to Smoak. Comparing a backup catcher getting paid close to league minimum to what amounts to our starting first baseman making 4M+ is a ridiculous comparison. Any offence from a backup catcher is a plus. All the guy needs to do is take some walks and be good defensively.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

A couple days old, but interesting.

As the Toronto Blue Jays continue exploring the market for left-handed relievers, veteran southpaw Craig Breslow has emerged on their radar, according to an industry source.

The sides have been in touch in recent days and, as Rob Bradford of WEEI first reported, the Blue Jays were among the teams in attendance when Breslow worked out for scouts Monday.

Like Jarrod Saltalamacchia, who agreed to a minor-league deal with the Blue Jays Tuesday, Breslow played on the 2013 Red Sox team that won the World Series. Ben Cherington, the GM of that Red Sox team, now works for the Blue Jays as their vice president of baseball operations.

Along with Breslow, the market features some higher-profile left-handed options. Jerry Blevins, an excellent fit on paper, remains in contact with the Blue Jays, according to a source. Beyond that there’s Travis Wood, who’s believed to be seeking a starting job, and Boone Logan. While Blevins and Logan seem well-positioned to land multi-year deals, Breslow would be available more affordably on a one-year contract or perhaps a minor-league deal with incentives.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb...ue-jays-radar/

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal
Sources: #BlueJays, #Indians, #Twins strong on Breslow. #Mets, #Dodgers in, too. Likely to wait on decision until after Blevins, Logan sign.

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal
FWIW: Breslow has connections with #BlueJays (Shapiro, Cherington, pitching coach Walker); #Indians (Miller, Francona); #Dodgers (Hill).

[calculoso]

@israelfehr: Four Blue Jays on http://MLB.com's 2017 top 100 prospects list:

34. 3B Guerrero Jr.
64. P Reid-Foley
70. OF Alford
94. SS Urena

[bluejays]

Pretty evenly spread around all 4 quartiles. Not bad really. Still no top prospects but beats having 1 or 2 like last year (iirc).

[Alberta_Beef]

I'm surprised Gurriel didn't make the top 100, he's supposed to be the better of the brothers and Yuli looked pretty solid in Houston last year.

[Strange Brew]

Yuli looked OK but at this point he's fully baked so not sure just how good of a major leaguer he is. He'll turn 33 in June so might be closer to 40.

I also heard the kid brother had more potential so hopefully true.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by fleury

Pretty evenly spread around all 4 quartiles. Not bad really. Still no top prospects but beats having 1 or 2 like last year (iirc).

Blue Jays are doing alright with prospects. That List doesn't really mean much though. Travis Snyder, Justin Smoak, Colby Rasmu, and Eric Thames I think were all top 5 at some point of time on that list.

[TheAlpineOracle]

http://www.tsn.ca/report-moss-royals...-deal-1.660386.

Two years at 6 million per. Pretty reasonable. Wish we had him over Smoak, but such is life. I think he would have been a decent stop-gap for the Jays at first. Not sure how Steve Pearce gets a bigger deal than Moss. Weird offseason.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

The Blue Jays announced that they’ve signed right-hander Lucas Harrell to a minor league contract with an invitation to Major League Spring Training. Harrell is represented by Frontline.

The 31-year-old Harrell returned to the Majors in 2016 after spending the 2015 season with the LG Twins of the Korea Baseball Organization. Last year, after inking a minor league contract with Atlanta, Harrell reemerged in the Majors and tossed 47 innings of 4.21 ERA ball with 6.9 K/9, 4.8 BB/9 and a 44.3 percent ground-ball rate in nine starts between the Braves and Rangers.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/0...ague-deal.html

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

Not sure how Steve Pearce gets a bigger deal than Moss. Weird offseason.

2016 Pearce: 136 wRC+, 2.0 fWAR, .288/.374/.492
2016 Moss: 105 wRC+, 1.4 fWAR, .233/.315/.450

... that's how.