[News] With the 166th OA pick, Flames select C/LW Andrew Mangiapane

[blankall]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

I think Foo is the closest Heat forward to being an NHLer. Though I bet even if he's better than Lazar/Hathaway/Brouwer, he probably still goes to the A cause of the new depth and the playing meaningful minutes argument.

What I found that made Foo more effective in his stint was he simplified his game more and went to the scoring areas without hesitance, whereas Breadnoms was kinda still playing his AHL game during his.

Good luck going to the net with the linemates that Mangiapane had. I feel like there should be some kind of sarcastic animation with Mangiapane growing a beard as he waits for an opportunity in front of the net to illustrate my point.

[Roof-Daddy]

Points per game in the AHL last year, forwards, 21 years old or younger, 10+ games played:

1. Andrew Mangiapane - 1.18
2. Jack Roslovic - 1.09
3. Michael Amadio - 1.09
4. Denis Malgin - 1.08
5. Dylan Strome - 1.06
6. Nic Merkeley - 1.03
7. Daniel Sprong - 1.00
8. Sammy Blais - 0.95
9. Vlad Kaminev - 0.94
10. Kasperi Kapanen - 0.86

So yeah...

[Calgary4LIfe]

This is what a deep team looks like - NHL ready prospects (at least arguably so) being pushed down to the farm.


Just to illustrate for depth, not necessarily line combos:


Gaudreau - Monahan - Neal
Tkachuk - Backlund - Lindholm
Bennett - Jankowski - Frolik
Frolik - Ryan - Lazar
Brouwer


Giordano - Brodie
Hanifin - Hamonic
Kulak - Stone
Andersson


Where does a prospect displace a vet? I think the Flames use Brouwer and Lazar interchangeably - wave Lazar, and he gets picked up. I think he is useful - great speed and physicality, good defensive ability and I am curious to see how Peters utilizes him, and if we see an uptick in his offence. I think he gets claimed, but I would rather see how he looks in a better system. He had spurts where he looked very effective last season.


Brouwer - I would rather him be the 13th forward than a prospect. Flames will play him, and though he is overpriced, I thought defensively he was strong. You don't lose games with Brouwer in the lineup - he just doesn't push the needle far enough given his salary. Curious to see how Peters fits him in.


Forwards that I think could make the squad:
Foo - Looked like a completely different player than the one that showed up at training camp. Assertive out on the ice, physical, but you could see he was a bit nervous at handling the puck. I thought he impressed in his call-up.


Mangiapane - It is hard to tell how offensive you are when you are playing with Brouwer and Stajan, but he showed flashes. I really had my doubts about him, but I see him now as a can't miss NHL'er.


Dube - I still think the easy choice is to get him some seasoning. It won't hurt his development at all, and it isn't like he is going to be a driving force in his rookie year. Let him earn a call-up with strong play in the AHL.


Quine, Robinson and especially Ehliz I am not familiar with enough to have an opinion, but all three seem like solid depth.


Klimchuk could be in the mix. We will have to see. I think this is the cut-off point for me. I don't see an NHL player in Shinkaruk, and the rest are too young.


On defence, I think you will see a bigger fight.


Prout makes sense as a 7th defencemen. Again, you don't want a prospect or a young developing player sitting for long periods of time.



Top 4 are probably set in stone - that leaves the bottom pairing. Kulak and Stone obviously have the inside track, but Andersson is pushing, and I bet that Kylington impresses again. Hogstrom is another guy that is pushing. I think Valimaki will really have to make a tremendous push - his contract will slide in the AHL IIRC, so it isn't like the Flames are in dire need of Valimaki making the push this year. There is a lot of depth on the left side.


I think when you are rebuilding, there is one rule:
If a young guy equals a vet on the team, the vet gets displaced.


However, when you are trying to compete, depth is so important. You want to maintain as much depth as possible. A young player has to make a bigger push to force his team to make room. In a long playoff run, it is nice having depth. Playoffs are often a war of attrition.


With that said, I think Trelving makes a move in the forward core. I don't think he makes a move on defence, as he has made reference to adding further depth. WHo knows.

[Flashpoint]

Who in their right mind would pick up Lazar?

He's not an NHLer. He turns 24 this season, so he isn't really even a prospect anymore. What you see is what you get. Not much.

[Duffalufagus]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

This is what a deep team looks like - NHL ready prospects (at least arguably so) being pushed down to the farm.


Just to illustrate for depth, not necessarily line combos:


Gaudreau - Monahan - Neal
Tkachuk - Backlund - Lindholm
Bennett - Jankowski - Frolik
Frolik - Ryan - Lazar
Brouwer


Giordano - Brodie
Hanifin - Hamonic
Kulak - Stone
Andersson


Where does a prospect displace a vet? I think the Flames use Brouwer and Lazar interchangeably - wave Lazar, and he gets picked up. I think he is useful - great speed and physicality, good defensive ability and I am curious to see how Peters utilizes him, and if we see an uptick in his offence. I think he gets claimed, but I would rather see how he looks in a better system. He had spurts where he looked very effective last season.


Brouwer - I would rather him be the 13th forward than a prospect. Flames will play him, and though he is overpriced, I thought defensively he was strong. You don't lose games with Brouwer in the lineup - he just doesn't push the needle far enough given his salary. Curious to see how Peters fits him in.


Forwards that I think could make the squad:
Foo - Looked like a completely different player than the one that showed up at training camp. Assertive out on the ice, physical, but you could see he was a bit nervous at handling the puck. I thought he impressed in his call-up.


Mangiapane - It is hard to tell how offensive you are when you are playing with Brouwer and Stajan, but he showed flashes. I really had my doubts about him, but I see him now as a can't miss NHL'er.


Dube - I still think the easy choice is to get him some seasoning. It won't hurt his development at all, and it isn't like he is going to be a driving force in his rookie year. Let him earn a call-up with strong play in the AHL.


Quine, Robinson and especially Ehliz I am not familiar with enough to have an opinion, but all three seem like solid depth.


Klimchuk could be in the mix. We will have to see. I think this is the cut-off point for me. I don't see an NHL player in Shinkaruk, and the rest are too young.


On defence, I think you will see a bigger fight.


Prout makes sense as a 7th defencemen. Again, you don't want a prospect or a young developing player sitting for long periods of time.



Top 4 are probably set in stone - that leaves the bottom pairing. Kulak and Stone obviously have the inside track, but Andersson is pushing, and I bet that Kylington impresses again. Hogstrom is another guy that is pushing. I think Valimaki will really have to make a tremendous push - his contract will slide in the AHL IIRC, so it isn't like the Flames are in dire need of Valimaki making the push this year. There is a lot of depth on the left side.


I think when you are rebuilding, there is one rule:
If a young guy equals a vet on the team, the vet gets displaced.


However, when you are trying to compete, depth is so important. You want to maintain as much depth as possible. A young player has to make a bigger push to force his team to make room. In a long playoff run, it is nice having depth. Playoffs are often a war of attrition.


With that said, I think Trelving makes a move in the forward core. I don't think he makes a move on defence, as he has made reference to adding further depth. WHo knows.

Maybe a prospect could displace one of the Froliks in the lineup?

[LiquidX]

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

Who in their right mind would pick up Lazar?

He's not an NHLer. He turns 24 this season, so he isn't really even a prospect anymore. What you see is what you get. Not much.

I think he has value as a 4th liner with ability to move up to fill injury. He's got wheels, plays with energy, likes to hit (130 in 65gp last year), and is only getting paid like 800k/yr. Maybe he has more pudding than porridge in the bucket sometimes.. but what do you expect from a 4th line guy. Plus he's still pretty damned young, has a couple hundred games worth of experience under his belt already, and has no qualms about his role on the team.

All of that sounds pretty appealing to me. Don't forget we're still washing off the Ottawa stink - where by many accounts (media) he was not given proper development opportunities.

Guess it depends on your expectations.

By the way, he turns 24 in February. Saying "he turns 24 this season" while true, seems a bit disingenuous.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

Who in their right mind would pick up Lazar?

He's not an NHLer. He turns 24 this season, so he isn't really even a prospect anymore. What you see is what you get. Not much.

Wait, what? Austin Czarnik (25) is the second coming and certain to garner PP time, but Curtis Lazar is not worthy of a pick? What are people smoking right now? Czarnik scored a whopping 4 points last year in the NHL, and 17 in his NHL career. Lazar scored 12 points last season in limited ice time. Yet one is a highly prized UFA and the other is worthless? I know its goof season, but things have truly gotten goofy.

[Yrebmi]

To be fair, Czarnik has those 17 points in only 59 total NHL games. .288 ppg
Lazar has played 245 NHL games and garnered only 51 points. .208 ppg

Still not worthless though.

[iloveicedhockey]

I actually thought Lazar had turned it around a little over the last ten or so games (however meaningless they were), at least in terms of his play. Still no points but showed improvement.

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by New Era

Wait, what? Austin Czarnik (25) is the second coming and certain to garner PP time, but Curtis Lazar is not worthy of a pick? What are people smoking right now? Czarnik scored a whopping 4 points last year in the NHL, and 17 in his NHL career. Lazar scored 12 points last season in limited ice time. Yet one is a highly prized UFA and the other is worthless? I know its goof season, but things have truly gotten goofy.

At this point in his career we know what Lazar is in the NHL by now; maybe he can become a 10 G 10A guy but he’s a 4th line energy guy who might be able to last on a third line if he peaks a little further but his hands are far too unskilled to ever catch up with his one true asset which is speed. For him to lengthen his career he’s going to have to commit to being a role player/energy guy who’s good for 8-10 mins a night and he needs to commit to physically laying his body on the line with hits and blocked shots to do that.

With Czarnik we have a guy who’s talent has been largely untapped/unexplored at the NHL level - does he produce at a higher clip than a Lazar? Who knows at this point but his AHL totals lead to a narrative that says he is a lot more highly skilled than Lazar and if he is able to lengthen his pro career at the NHL level it won’t be through commiting to a energy role on the 4th line but to a scoring role which is what his skill set dictates.

I don’t think anyone is suggesting Czarnik is better than Lazar at this point in time but I think people are hedging their bets that there is a pretty good chance he will be by next off-season.

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by New Era

Wait, what? Austin Czarnik (25) is the second coming and certain to garner PP time, but Curtis Lazar is not worthy of a pick? What are people smoking right now? Czarnik scored a whopping 4 points last year in the NHL, and 17 in his NHL career. Lazar scored 12 points last season in limited ice time. Yet one is a highly prized UFA and the other is worthless? I know its goof season, but things have truly gotten goofy.

I don’t feel that way about Czarnik either.

But, yeah, a lot of “shiny new toy” syndrome around.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by New Era

Wait, what? Austin Czarnik (25) is the second coming and certain to garner PP time, but Curtis Lazar is not worthy of a pick? What are people smoking right now? Czarnik scored a whopping 4 points last year in the NHL, and 17 in his NHL career. Lazar scored 12 points last season in limited ice time. Yet one is a highly prized UFA and the other is worthless? I know its goof season, but things have truly gotten goofy.

Czarnik played 10 games and Lazar played 65

add 69 AHL points for Czarnik in 64 games...the guy has far more potential than Lazar come on now

[Fan in Exile]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/...es=2017-2018:E

eta: this page can't possibly be right - posters are correct - he had 10 games. Weird.

I've seen stuff on dobber that makes me not trust their numbers any more.

You're basing your analysis on the preseason.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

You're basing your analysis on the preseason.

Yeah, that's been noted. For some reason that page pulled up for me by mistake.

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Czarnik played 10 games and Lazar played 65

add 69 AHL points for Czarnik in 64 games...the guy has far more potential than Lazar come on now

What were Lazar's AHL numbers? Yeah that's what I thought. He would tear that league apart given the chance.

[AustinL_NHL]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

What were Lazar's AHL numbers? Yeah that's what I thought. He would tear that league apart given the chance.

Yea, his 4 points in 13 AHL games in the 2016-17 season was quite remarkable

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Duffalufagus

Maybe a prospect could displace one of the Froliks in the lineup?

No.


You get a Frolik. And you get a Frolik. And you...just get a Fro.


As for the Lazar talk, I don't think we know what exactly he is. I also thought that late into the season as he actually received regular playing time rather than being scratched every so often, he started finding his groove. That's a solid forechecker there. I would rather wait and see what he becomes. Even if all he will be is a 10 goal scorer playing off the 4th line, that still might be an effective player.



He has wheels, plays with some sandpaper to his game, and he seems to have a decent enough IQ. I like him. I don't see how he would pass through waivers, even at the end of the pre-season as teams are finalizing their rosters. I think he will improve this season, but how much and what kind of a ceiling he attains in his career is remains a bit of a mystery. I think having that speed, forechecking ability and sandpaper to his game makes him a decent 4th liner today on a cheap contract, and he may yet take a few steps forward.

[Gaskal]

Lazar needs a damn shooting coach...

Oh wait we just signed Neal.

[Roof-Daddy]

The beatiful thing is now we don't NEED Lazar find another level.

If he does, great. It'll be a nice bonus.

If not, then meh, he can be the 13th forward.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

Lazar needs a damn shooting coach...

Oh wait we just signed Neal.

Lol so true on both points made.