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Old 05-24-2019, 01:00 PM   #21
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Backlund does a lot of heavy lifting for Tkachuk at even strength

Hope Matthew buys him a nice dinner
I hope Backlund bought Tkachuk a car after the contract he got
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Old 05-24-2019, 01:05 PM   #22
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My bad.
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Tkachuk is more like Marchand than the other guys though. He's really ****ing good. He's just a total butthole.
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Old 05-24-2019, 01:08 PM   #23
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I disagree. A team will certainly pony up a big asset for him. I said before I wonder if the Blues who probably covet him would trade Tarasenko for him? He is only 27, on a great contract, and fills a need. Would probably score 50+ with Johnny feeding him.
I never said someone will not pony up a big asset for him.

I just said they weren't going to get equivalent value for a player that is being traded who has unreasonable salary demands.

Tarasenko is currently leading the Blues into the SC final. And on a great contract. No particular reason why the Blues would want to trade him.
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Old 05-24-2019, 01:09 PM   #24
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While everything you say may well be correct, "deserve" likely has little to do with it.

I'm guessing he wants 4 years, but may settle for 5 if the price is right.

I expect he'll be like his dad, and drive a hard bargain. Calgary needs to be prepared to trade him if they don't like the price, but that's not going to help them win the Cup anytime soon. They won't be able to get a comparable player who's cheaper. Tkachuk's value will be discounted if he has huge salary expectations and there's a team out there that will pay him that amount because the acquisition cost is less.
If my options are sign a bad deal or trade him for less than hes worth then the flames need to look at either signing a deal that buys 0 ufa years and risk losing him in 4 years or trade gio and shift the window out a couple years and build for 2 years from now. I doubt they trade gio so 4 years 6.75 and rebuild in 3 years make a run now
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Old 05-24-2019, 04:45 PM   #25
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huh, that's weird.

I posted this in January:

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He's carrying around brick layers and scoring at an impressive rate 5-5.

The 8.5 million draisaitl contract is the starting point in my mind.
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The argument though is that Tkachuk isn't just producing first line offense, he's doing it with plumbers on the second line AND he is doing it largely in a defensive role...
Well that is NOT the argument being made in that article, since the notion that Mikael Backlund is a "plumber" is completely ridiculous.

The argument being made more simply is this: Leon Draisaitl scored 77 points entering his second contract, and parleyed that into an $8.5 m cap hit. At the time the contract was 11.3% of a $75 m salary cap. By precisely the same ratio that would amount to $9.4 m on the basis of next year's $83 m salary cap, and would thus be a reasonable projection for Tkachuk's value since he scored an identical 77 points in the last year of his ELC.

In other words, Tkachuk's valuation has nothing to do with playing alongside Michael Backlund, as if that is some sort of detraction.
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Old 05-24-2019, 04:48 PM   #26
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I hope Backlund bought Tkachuk a car after the contract he got
How’s that?

How and when did Tkachuk make Backlund’s numbers improve?

Flames didn’t pay Backlund because of anybody but Backlund
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Old 05-24-2019, 04:50 PM   #27
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How’s that?

How and when did Tkachuk make Backlund’s numbers improve?

Flames didn’t pay Backlund because of anybody but Backlund
Who was on his wing when he had his 2 best offensive seasons?
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Tkachuk is more like Marchand than the other guys though. He's really ****ing good. He's just a total butthole.
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Old 05-24-2019, 05:09 PM   #28
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Who was on his wing when he had his 2 best offensive seasons?
Well sure, Backlund's best offensive year was 2016-2017 when he had 53 points in 81 games. That was Tkachuk's rookie year. He's since had a 45 point season, and most recently a 47 point season.

Backlund also had 47 points in 82 games the year before, playing mostly with Bennett/Frolik or Colborne/Frolik.

Tkachuk is great, but comparing Backlund's last season without Tkachuk to those with him his point production changed by +6, -2, and 0. Not as much of a difference as I expected.
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Old 05-24-2019, 05:15 PM   #29
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Well Backlund missed some games this last season as well.

But apart from that Tkachuk made that entire line better when he joined it. Im not sure how thats arguable?

Backlund is a good player, Im not saying he isnt, but MT drives that line offensively way more than MB does. Tkachuk does the heavy lifting while Backlund is the defensive conscience, and a very good one at that.

At any rate that has nothing to do with what young Matthew is going to get paid.
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Tkachuk is more like Marchand than the other guys though. He's really ****ing good. He's just a total butthole.
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Old 05-24-2019, 05:18 PM   #30
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I hope Backlund bought Tkachuk a car after the contract he got
I hope none of these players are foolish enough to purchase a car when they can do two autograph signings a year at the dealership of their choice and get paid to drive something new every six months.
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Old 05-24-2019, 10:49 PM   #31
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IMO, the total collapse of the top players on the flames in the playoffs has affected their value.
MT, i believe is due for a decent contract, but to think he will get over 8 mil for 5 yrs is astounding.
This is just me, he is not worth more than every other player on the team.
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Old 05-24-2019, 10:59 PM   #32
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Didn't someone say Gio was going to make over 8 million before he signed?

Rumors like this always seem to blow things out of proportion
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Old 05-24-2019, 11:03 PM   #33
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I can see Tkachuk being a hold-out into the regular season. Business is business, unfortunately.
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Old 05-24-2019, 11:07 PM   #34
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IMO, the total collapse of the top players on the flames in the playoffs has affected their value.
MT, i believe is due for a decent contract, but to think he will get over 8 mil for 5 yrs is astounding.
This is just me, he is not worth more than every other player on the team.
He is the most valuable player up for contract in the current market. What other guys got paid years ago is irrelevant. If Gaudreau was due we would be talking double digits.
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Old 05-24-2019, 11:28 PM   #35
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I can see Tkachuk being a hold-out into the regular season. Business is business, unfortunately.

Yep, and Tre, if he is smart, knows he has the balance of power in that situation.

At a point, the player chooses between foregoing a full year at say 6 million, because they want 7, and there is a price gap where the holdout doesn’t make sense.

It’s not Iggy in the ‘face of the franchise’ years. He is one of the top 4-5 players on the team.
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Old 05-25-2019, 12:05 AM   #36
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I can see Tkachuk being a hold-out into the regular season. Business is business, unfortunately.
Last thing both parties need is Tkachuk holding out. Just off the top of my head, Johnny and Nylander were the last 2 RFA's who held out. Both of whom ended up having career low numbers.
I can't see Tkachuk holding out. By all accounts something in the 7-8M range seems fair for both sides.
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Old 05-25-2019, 12:21 AM   #37
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i'd take the qoutes with grain of salt, considering the sources...

its in the best interests of agents to pump the numbers of player contracts.

Draistl was considered a massive overpayment at the time of his contract, so using that as a measuring stick is self serving. Is he worth that now? sure if he's a regular 50 goal scorer... But no one expected that at the time of the signing.

that's why i expect a shorter 5 year deal
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Old 05-25-2019, 10:58 AM   #38
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Well sure, Backlund's best offensive year was 2016-2017 when he had 53 points in 81 games. That was Tkachuk's rookie year. He's since had a 45 point season, and most recently a 47 point season.

Backlund also had 47 points in 82 games the year before, playing mostly with Bennett/Frolik or Colborne/Frolik.

Tkachuk is great, but comparing Backlund's last season without Tkachuk to those with him his point production changed by +6, -2, and 0. Not as much of a difference as I expected.
That's definitely one way to look at it.

Another is that his career high season came in Tkachuk's first in the league where Backlund scored 16 of his 53 points on the power play, whereas last year he scored 2 of his 47 points on the powerplay.

Last year was Backlund's highest points per game average over the last 5 seasons.

The season before last Backlund scored 11 of his 47 points on the PP, even though he was shooting a paltry 6.5%.

If Backlund finishes 2017-2018 with the same shooting percentage at this season, his second lowest in 4 years, then it's 3 straight seasons of career highs for Backlund with Tkachuk on his wing.

Another way to look at it is with Tkachuk on his wing Backlund is a .6+ point per game player for the only time in his career.

Last season was the most even strength minutes per game backlund played in the last 5 seasons. With Tkachuk on his wing, Backlund has turned into a 40+ even strength point producer in the league.

To put it in perspective, only 10 flames players have produced more at even strength in the last 5 years than Backlund did last. They are all basically the top line and giordano.

Backlund scored as much at even strength last year as Gaudreau did in 2014-2015.

Backlund has scored 30 even strength points in his career just one time without Tkachuk on his wing.

His 3 highest assists per game seasons come with Tkachuk on his wing.
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Old 05-25-2019, 04:24 PM   #39
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If you talk to both guys, Backlund and Tkachuk have admitted that they've helped bring out the best in each other's games.
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Old 05-25-2019, 05:29 PM   #40
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Treliving has yet to sign a contract longer than six years (EDIT: As Scorpion points out, Monahan got seven).

As we've seen with Johnny and Monahan, the Gio cap is real. On the Calgary Flames, $6.75M gets you:

-First-line LW who has lead the team in scoring every year since 15/16.
-Soon-to-be Norris trophy winning defenseman who is a freak biceps tear from being a 2x Norris trophy winner.

Tkachuk has finished 5th, 3rd and 4th in team scoring, which is awesome. It doesn't explain why he deserves $2M+ more than players he hasn't been better than. 3 points in 9 playoff games, compared to 12 in 20 for Gaudreau.

Tkachuk is great. There's no way to argue he's not an insanely good hockey player. A common comparable is Nylander. Nylander's cap hit is $6.96M. So it's not even like that deal reset the market, Nylander's negotiation was just a spectacle.

Tkachuk isn't a centre. He isn't Matthews. He isn't McDavid. He isn't even Draisaitl, who got $8.5M ostensibly to be a centre; there's not a single winger not named Draisaitl to get $8M out of their ELC in the entire sport. I know we like Tkachuk, but there has to be a reason beyond "the worst organization in the game gave Draisaitl X, so Tkachuk deserves more despite not even putting up Draisaitl numbers on the wing".

Tkachuk is going to get a deal where most of his lockout year salary is guaranteed in a July 1 signing bonus. He will likely sign for 6 years, and I will be astonished if his number begins with a 7.

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