Impact of arena negotiation tactics and election interference on STHs?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by nik-

"We the people" may be over the top, but "taking my money" is perfectly accurate.

What else should it be called? It's a massive tax handout where we'd have no option to refuse.

You could call it a not unusual market deal for arenas.

I agree that it's a handout to the extent it's not a net benefit. But then, you have no option as to how any particular dollar of your taxes is spent. Do you like or go to pretty much every show shot around here? They receive money from your tax dollars. And how massive is it to you personally?

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Envitro

I get the point that you're trying to make, but the argument falls down when you start talking about Edmonton. Not exactly a place where you "need" to do any of this to sell tickets. Yet, they still do all of those things.

I have plenty of Oiler STH friends and they get way more for their $$ than we do. I know, the ####ty team argument is always made too, but can't say that with the McJesus and Draisaitl contracts. They're a cap team too and have been for a while.

A few thoughts on that:

1. I get that Edmonton is most certainly a good hockey market, one of the best, but how do we know they don't need to do way more considering as you said, ####ty team, and brand new building with much higher ticket hike? Also potentially different economic profile in that city. Maybe they do, maybe they don't, but we don't know they don't need to.

2. Let's say they actually don't need to but they still do it...........that actually means they are running their business poorly, not that the Flames should copy their model. The Oilers are seemingly one of the poorest run orgs in the league, both on and off the ice, why is that a model the Flames should copy?

3. What the Oilers or any other market does is not relevant on the business side. Fan's often confuse our on ice competition with who the Flames competition is off the ice (not saying you did confuse this). The Flames aren't competing with the Oilers for entertainment dollars, with the exception of the rural AB and Sask fan bases, they are competing with anything else in the city of Calgary that we might chose to spend our money on.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Dan403

Don't let the door hit you on the @$$ on the way out.

Ken?

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[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

A few thoughts on that:

3. What the Oilers or any other market does is not relevant on the business side.

CSEC seem to differ on that thought. They're demanding the same arena deal the Oilers got

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[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

I find your deceleration of election interference very dramatic.

I'll respond with this from the Globe and Mail

Originally Posted by Globe and Mail

On July 28, the president of the Calgary Flames wrote a letter to the city's mayor. The hockey club wanted something it had never had and felt it badly needed: a private meeting between the NHL team's owners, the mayor and city council to explain the Flames' position in negotiations over a new arena. And so the parties gathered behind closed doors at City Hall three days later.

The meeting began and ended with handshakes. In between, it was tense, peppered with barbs, interruptions and threats. An uncomfortable silence brought it to a close.

All but one of the sources interviewed for this story said the Flames were stirring the political pot at the July 31 meeting. "The election was brought up repeatedly," Ms. Farrell said. "You don't bring up the fact that you're walking from the table and the election in same meeting without it being perceived as a threat."

On the flip side, some councillors told the Flames they were confident Calgarians opposed handing the club bales of taxpayer money because that is what constituents were telling them as they knocked on doors, according to three sources. The Flames, one participant said, were the ones misreading the political landscape.

[Smartcar]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Election interfering is a bit strong.

That's what they were doing, IMO and others thought the same:
http://nationalpost.com/opinion/jen-...-a-sports-team

Amid stalled negotiations for a new hockey rink, the NHL unabashedly attempted to interfere with Calgary's election.

If the Flames had succeeded I would have been upset enough not to renew my seasons tickets next year (too late for this year). Fortunately Calgarians are too smart.

[Bill Bumface]

The constant price increases while people were losing their jobs was pretty annoying, especially when it got to the point that they weren't selling out anymore. Is this still about the fans at all? Or purely about revenues?

The arena thing has been highly annoying, as was the very public political posturing.

I really miss Harley Hotchkiss. The organization was one of the classiest during his tenure.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by kermitology

Yeah, after this season I’m out.

Im curious as to why you would wait?

Serious question, only because Im wondering what changes after this season?

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Im curious as to why you would wait?



Serious question, only because Im wondering what changes after this season?

Because I’ve already paid for this season.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by nik-

"We the people" may be over the top, but "taking my money" is perfectly accurate.

What else should it be called? It's a massive tax handout where we'd have no option to refuse.

Did I have an option to refuse that great big library they are building?

The neato bridge that was unncessary, though cool?

Etc Etc Etc?

Using your logic the city should pay nary a dime...are you suggesting that as a strategy?

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Did I have an option to refuse that great big library they are building?

The neato bridge that was unncessary, though cool?

Etc Etc Etc?

Using your logic the city should pay nary a dime...are you suggesting that as a strategy?

The money spent on the great big library and the neato bridge wasn't used to subsidize a sports and entertainment CORPORATION.

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[transplant99]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

The money spent on the great big library and the neato bridge wasn't used to subsidize a sports and entertainment CORPORATION.

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I dont care.

I wont use the bridge nor the library, but i will use a new building...something that since the "city took my money", I can get use out of.

See how that works?

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I dont care.

I wont use the bridge nor the library, but i will use a new building...something that since the "city took my money", I can get use out of.

See how that works?

Yup. Pretty clear.

dyed in the wool supporter of corporate welfare...

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I dont care.

I wont use the bridge nor the library, but i will use a new building...something that since the "city took my money", I can get use out of.

See how that works?

Will you not use the Saddledome in the meantime? Is the prestige of a new arena to watch the same hockey in worth paying higher taxes and ticket prices? Not to mention that same money the city took from you could be spent on something else that you could get even more use out of than the arena.

[Smartcar]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I wont use the bridge nor the library, but i will use a new building...something that since the "city took my money", I can get use out of.

It’s been said countless times before - the bridge and library are public. The arena is for those who pay to enter, and that payment is to a for-profit business. Not at all comparable. As a taxpayer and STH I think it’s completely appropriate that the average Calgary taxpayer shouldn’t have to pay for a new arena.

[Robbob]

I see what he is getting at though. I am a huge flames fan and attended most of the games. If I really enjoy doing something why would I care who profits if it adds to the experience.

[Cambardi]

To play the devils advocate here...the Calgary stampede runs for ten days every July. It is a non profit as we’ll but receives tax subsidy without a doubt. Not ever Calgarian likes or attend the greatest outdoor show on earth but their tax money indeed funds it to some extent.

[Smartcar]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Im curious as to why you would wait?

Serious question, only because Im wondering what changes after this season?

If you’re seriously asking, you’re either not a STH or you don’t believe in honouring contracts.

[kevman]

I'm absolutely opposed to using public money to fund the new arena. However the politicking doesn't really bother me. They're a business and all businesses, and citizens for that matter, act /vote in a way that will benefit them. The empty threats are insulting and the actions of the CSEC are sleazy but I'm happy that we haven't fallen for them yet.

I'll continue to renew my portion of tickets until the value isn't there. Based on the price increases they saw up north I'll probably stop renewing when the new arena gets built.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

Yup. Pretty clear.

dyed in the wool supporter of corporate welfare...

Uhhh...no.

This was about complaining where ones tax dollars go....remember? Its right up there ^^^^ for you to see.

"We the people" may be over the top, but "taking my money" is perfectly accurate.

What else should it be called? It's a massive tax handout where we'd have no option to refuse.

Im merely pointing out that i did not have a right to refuse money going to a plethora of projects i will never use....soo therefore i might as well ask my tax dollars go to something i will.


Pretty simple.