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Old 10-12-2018, 11:10 AM   #21
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40 points from the “3rd line” without PP/PK time would be huge.
I will be shocked if Bennett does not get a bunch of pp time over the full season.


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Old 10-13-2018, 10:14 AM   #22
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Sure but Ferland was never .. honestly never a deterrent. Even in that Vancouver series he just hit guys, he wasn't keeping people in line in any way shape or form.

His inconsistency in scoring was more than matched by his inconsistency in physical play.

Lindholm + Pelusso <> Ferland@10% + Jankowski

But I'm honestly not on the deterrent is needed side. I don't see it. I do think some players have told Treliving it's important though.
Right now the Flames in contention for the lady Byng:


Gio
Brodie
Valimaki
Anderssen
Gaudreau
Monahan
Czarnik
Ryan

After 4 games these guys have 2 hits among them. Ryan and Gio each having one.

Ferland has 9 hit and Hamilton for crying out loud has 8. Brindamour was a very competitive guy as a player maybe his coaching pushes his players to be more physical ... Carolina is 3rd in the league in hits. Last season under Peters they were 28th in the league in hits.

The Flames new guys Hanifin 6, Neal and Lindholm 5 each are among the Flames leaders in hits. Tkachuk has 8.


The designated goon does not make up for overall team Lady Bynginess.
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Old 10-13-2018, 11:10 AM   #23
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Right now the Flames in contention for the lady Byng:


Gio
Brodie
Valimaki
Anderssen
Gaudreau
Monahan
Czarnik
Ryan

After 4 games these guys have 2 hits among them. Ryan and Gio each having one.

Ferland has 9 hit and Hamilton for crying out loud has 8. Brindamour was a very competitive guy as a player maybe his coaching pushes his players to be more physical ... Carolina is 3rd in the league in hits. Last season under Peters they were 28th in the league in hits.

The Flames new guys Hanifin 6, Neal and Lindholm 5 each are among the Flames leaders in hits. Tkachuk has 8.


The designated goon does not make up for overall team Lady Bynginess.
I have never trusted hitting stats around the league and never will.

If you think Hamilton has suddenly become a physical player I can't help you man.
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Old 10-13-2018, 11:30 AM   #24
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I have never trusted hitting stats around the league and never will.



If you think Hamilton has suddenly become a physical player I can't help you man.
Besides that, hitting totals can communicate all sorts of different things about a team. In some cases they show “physicality,” but most of the time they also indicate that the team is playing without the puck. A lot. So, are Calgary’s hit numbers low because they are “soft”? Or are they low because through four games the Flames have been carrying the puck much more frequently than they have been without it?


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Old 10-13-2018, 11:30 AM   #25
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I don’t believe Peters preaches a physical style of play and I recall Brindamour saying the Hurricanes were too easy to play against last year.

Have also heard Treliving talk about a style of play that gets you into the playoffs may not be the same as what wins in the playoffs.

So I’m not surprised Flames aren’t very physical this far in the season. But if we re having a good season wouldn’t be surprised to see Treliving target a big forward at the deadline.
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Old 10-13-2018, 05:13 PM   #26
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I don’t believe Peters preaches a physical style of play and I recall Brindamour saying the Hurricanes were too easy to play against last year.

Have also heard Treliving talk about a style of play that gets you into the playoffs may not be the same as what wins in the playoffs.

So I’m not surprised Flames aren’t very physical this far in the season. But if we re having a good season wouldn’t be surprised to see Treliving target a big forward at the deadline.
A big forward... even a Reeves, won't make you significantly harder to play against if you have 8 players 4 defensemen and 4 forward that are on the ice for say 66% of the total ice time you are going to be a soft team. that is easy to play against.

If hitting doesn't negate the other teams skills then why does everyone step up their hitting in the playoffs?
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Old 10-13-2018, 05:21 PM   #27
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I have never trusted hitting stats around the league and never will.

If you think Hamilton has suddenly become a physical player I can't help you man.
I haven't watched a Carolina game and also have a hard time believing Hamilton would be a physical player, but maybe Brindamour is a motivational expert.

He sure isn't giving Hamilton top 2 ice time or even top PP time, not treating him like he is a generational talent like the Flames did.

Maybe getting moved for the 2nd time in 3 years makes a guy more coach-able.
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Old 10-13-2018, 06:09 PM   #28
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^
Well, I have watched a few of the Hurricanes games this year, and I have to say that Hamilton has looked ... okay. He's not playing bad, but he also is not playing great. Again, hits occur when players are trying to separate the puck carrier from the puck. I think it is a good bet that Hamilton's hit numbers are higher because he has been playing without the puck a lot more than he did when he was paired with Giordano.
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Old 10-14-2018, 10:20 AM   #29
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^
Well, I have watched a few of the Hurricanes games this year, and I have to say that Hamilton has looked ... okay. He's not playing bad, but he also is not playing great. Again, hits occur when players are trying to separate the puck carrier from the puck. I think it is a good bet that Hamilton's hit numbers are higher because he has been playing without the puck a lot more than he did when he was paired with Giordano.
Stats... I was lead to believer that the Corsi / Shots attempted were indicative of possesion.

Carolina is 2nd in the league in USAT %


Lots of hits indicating that the other team has the puck and then out shooting the opposition by a lot indicating you have the puck a lot.

Go figure.

Hamilton has a USAT of 62.6 % to go along with his 2.2 hits game.

Jordan Staal has a USAT of 76.12 to go along with his 3.8 hits game

Last season Hamilton lead the Flames with a USAT of 57% and was at 1.0 hits/game.


I feel that hitting has more to do with compete level than puck possession.

The other team is going to have the puck at least 40% of the time. It is your option if you want to let them make a play with or without you bumping them.
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Old 10-14-2018, 10:42 AM   #30
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Stats... I was lead to believer that the Corsi / Shots attempted were indicative of possesion.

Carolina is 2nd in the league in USAT %


Lots of hits indicating that the other team has the puck and then out shooting the opposition by a lot indicating you have the puck a lot.

Go figure.

Hamilton has a USAT of 62.6 % to go along with his 2.2 hits game.

Jordan Staal has a USAT of 76.12 to go along with his 3.8 hits game

Last season Hamilton lead the Flames with a USAT of 57% and was at 1.0 hits/game.


I feel that hitting has more to do with compete level than puck possession.

The other team is going to have the puck at least 40% of the time. It is your option if you want to let them make a play with or without you bumping them.
I think the Hurricanes have a mixture of elements, and you're right it may not be that they're chasing the game.

The Oilers finished second in hits last year though, a classic example of a team that didn't have the puck and was chasing the game all season.

The stat itself isn't indicative on it's own, and with what we've seen in the past (LA was hilarious for hits and shots for example) counts can be market specific.

Carolina wasn't high in the past few seasons though, so it's possible Brind'amour has them finishing checks.

To me though I don't see a lot of games where I think to myself "that team is scared". Zadorov took liberties with Bennett last night and he got after him. If you are worried about the lack of physicality on the team it's a good sign that Bennett seems to be moving up the roster.
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Old 10-14-2018, 11:25 AM   #31
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I think the Hurricanes have a mixture of elements, and you're right it may not be that they're chasing the game.

The Oilers finished second in hits last year though, a classic example of a team that didn't have the puck and was chasing the game all season.

The stat itself isn't indicative on it's own, and with what we've seen in the past (LA was hilarious for hits and shots for example) counts can be market specific.

Carolina wasn't high in the past few seasons though, so it's possible Brind'amour has them finishing checks.

To me though I don't see a lot of games where I think to myself "that team is scared". Zadorov took liberties with Bennett last night and he got after him. If you are worried about the lack of physicality on the team it's a good sign that Bennett seems to be moving up the roster.
Bennett and Hathaway and Neal and Tkachuk and Stone... BUT the LB8 with a majority of the TOI kicked in with 1 hit against the Avs and shows show a structural problem in the organization.

Prout and Pelusso even being on the roster show that Peters understands that there is a problem.


LB8 - The 8 Lady Byng Contenders (7 when Hamonic returns)
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Old 10-14-2018, 11:29 AM   #32
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I have never trusted hitting stats around the league and never will.

If you think Hamilton has suddenly become a physical player I can't help you man.
I've seen Czarnik with a couple hits at least. D men without hits isn't really an issue depending on how they define hits. If they are retrieving and getting rid of the puck - not hitting. Covering players in the d zone doesn't usually involve a hit. Most good hits I see are forwards trying to dislodge a puck from a defender.
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Old 10-14-2018, 01:23 PM   #33
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Bennett and Hathaway and Neal and Tkachuk and Stone... BUT the LB8 with a majority of the TOI kicked in with 1 hit against the Avs and shows show a structural problem in the organization.

Prout and Pelusso even being on the roster show that Peters understands that there is a problem.


LB8 - The 8 Lady Byng Contenders (7 when Hamonic returns)
Two guys eating popcorn won't effect your hitting stats.

If the Flames believed there was a structural problem with the roster they would have addressed it in the off season with big changes to the top six and top four pairing. I'm certainly not opposed to physical play but this seems to be a thing for you more than for Peters and Treliving and certainly me.
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Old 10-14-2018, 01:46 PM   #34
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...Why exactly is Lady Byng being used as a negative?

Kopitar - two cups
Martin St. Louis x3 - one cup
Brian Campbell - one cup
Jiri Hudler - one cup
Pavel Datsyuk x4 - two cups
Brad Richards - two cups
Joe Sakic - two cups
Wayne Gretzky x5 - four cups
Joe Mullen x2 - three cups
Jarri Kurri - five cups
Mike Bossy x3 - four cups

Even if the conversation is on hits, we've seen teams near the bottom of the hit standings dominate their way to the cup - the Blackhawks, the Red Wings.

You have to play a style that wins with who you have, not fake a style to win despite who you have. This is a team built around some very good players who don't rack up huge hit totals.
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Old 10-14-2018, 02:25 PM   #35
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Bennett and Hathaway and Neal and Tkachuk and Stone... BUT the LB8 with a majority of the TOI kicked in with 1 hit against the Avs and shows show a structural problem in the organization.

Prout and Pelusso even being on the roster show that Peters understands that there is a problem.


LB8 - The 8 Lady Byng Contenders (7 when Hamonic returns)
Dominating, for the most part, two of the best NHL home record teams over the past and present season would seem to contradict your , as usual, contrarian and meaningless viewpoint.

And I do mean domination. Nashville and Colorado were badly outplayed with the exception of the first 10 minutes last night. Zero goals against for 117 out of 122 minutes supports this point.

Puck possession and fast transition negates physical play. Tough to bodycheck when you have the puck.

Time for you to burrow down another rabbit hole.

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Old 10-14-2018, 03:35 PM   #36
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...Why exactly is Lady Byng being used as a negative?
Does any of Ricardo’s weird twisting logic (or lack thereof) ever make sense?
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Old 10-16-2018, 09:24 AM   #37
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Does any of Ricardo’s weird twisting logic (or lack thereof) ever make sense?

Making it simpler to help you out:

2 maybe 3 guys who would win the Lady Byng is totally fine. 8 regular players no hitters presents a problem.
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Old 10-16-2018, 09:48 AM   #38
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GRIT!

I am locking this thread. The Blues game was nearly a week ago and there are other venues in which to carry on discussions.


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Old 10-16-2018, 09:48 AM   #39
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Making it simpler to help you out:

2 maybe 3 guys who would win the Lady Byng is totally fine. 8 regular players no hitters presents a problem.
Wow! Have you ever played hockey Ricky D? The objet of the game is to outscore the opposition not to outhit them. I prefer guys that use their hockey IQ to bump opposition players or angle them and stay in the play than the one who goes for "the" hit which eliminates both players!

Hockey IQ >>>> Hitting
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