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Old 06-21-2018, 09:30 PM   #41
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The majority of the electors did not vote. That's the only way to vote for ‘none of the above’, and that's what I was referring to.

Nice try.
Spoiling your ballot is voting for none of the above.

You're talking about just not showing up for the test at all, forfeiting your opportunity to argue whether the questions were even fair.
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Old 06-21-2018, 09:33 PM   #42
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If we're making car analogies, try this on:

Our old limousine runs just fine and is good for another couple of hundred thousand klicks, mechanically speaking. But the cost of fuel and wages for the driver keep going up and up, and the spoilt rich people who use our limo service want to hire newer and fancier cars. Either we go crazy in debt to buy a new limo, or we let the competition slowly squeeze us out of business. Neither option is what you would call attractive.
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Old 06-21-2018, 09:34 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by powderjunkie View Post
Spoiling your ballot is voting for none of the above.
If you don't vote for any of the candidates, you are voting for none of them.

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You're talking about just not showing up for the test at all, forfeiting your opportunity to argue whether the questions were even fair.
The voters are not being tested and there are no questions. The analogy fails.
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Old 06-21-2018, 10:08 PM   #44
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The majority of the electors did not vote. That's the only way to vote for ‘none of the above’, and that's what I was referring to.

Nice try.
You specifically said "The majority of Calgarians voted for ‘none of the above’, as usual."

Note voting is not voting. you can't say people voted for "none of the above" just because they didn't cast a ballot. I can just as accurately state that all the people who didn't vote did so because they supported Nenshi, and knew he was going to win so there was no point wasting there time. The only data you can use is the data that exists. Anything else is just making up facts to suit your narrative.
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Old 06-21-2018, 10:46 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Jay Random View Post
If we're making car analogies, try this on:

Our old limousine runs just fine and is good for another couple of hundred thousand klicks, mechanically speaking. But the cost of fuel and wages for the driver keep going up and up, and the spoilt rich people who use our limo service want to hire newer and fancier cars. Either we go crazy in debt to buy a new limo, or we let the competition slowly squeeze us out of business. Neither option is what you would call attractive.
It's more like the limousine company telling everyone they better buy him a new limo so he can charge them more money and maximise his earnings by catering to a higher clientele, pushing out all those middle-class peasants. Not only that, but they have to pay for his gas, insurance, maintenance and he's going to leave his old limo by the side of the road so they'll have to pay to have it towed and scrapped. Meanwhile, the cost to rent the limo is already out of reach for many of the people being asked to pay for the new one.
If they don't, he's going to move his limo company to a new city, even though he's got a steady, loyal customer base and making more money than half the limo companies in other cities.
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Old 06-21-2018, 11:40 PM   #46
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It's all much ado about nothing right now, to be honest.
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Old 06-22-2018, 07:36 PM   #47
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The Flames shouldn't get a dollar unless their books are publicly open. To get a low income discount on a bus pass, you need to prove you're low income.

They want money, and lots of it, for a new arena, but don't want to tell us how much they make now, and how much more they stand to make in a better building.

If owning an NHL team is a money losing venture in a world where owners pay for their own arenas, well, then that's that, and the public can decide to subsidize professional sports.

If it's STILL a net profit if they pay for their own arena, well, then under no circumstance should we pay a single dollar. Easy.
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Old 06-22-2018, 08:33 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Fuzz View Post
You specifically said "The majority of Calgarians voted for ‘none of the above’, as usual."

Note voting is not voting. you can't say people voted for "none of the above" just because they didn't cast a ballot.
Technically, that's true. But it doesn't address my point, which is that neither Nenshi nor any other candidate could count those people as supporters.

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I can just as accurately state that all the people who didn't vote did so because they supported Nenshi, and knew he was going to win so there was no point wasting there time.
No, you can't. Only a complete fool would try to claim to know the opinions of hundreds of thousands of strangers without asking any of them. To claim that every one of those people has the same opinion goes beyond foolishness into wilful idiocy.

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The only data you can use is the data that exists. Anything else is just making up facts to suit your narrative.
The data that exists tells me that a substantial majority of Calgarians could not be arsed to support Nenshi or any of the other candidates. Tough to spin that as an enthusiastic mandate from the masses.
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Old 06-23-2018, 01:37 AM   #49
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More like the ford dealership selling Ford Probe GT's in 2018. Sweet car if you need an exploratory on cars. In order to stay in business you have to innovate, spend some money on R&D, build new facilities, try to innovate like the people around you selling more cars.
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Old 07-27-2018, 02:43 PM   #50
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https://twitter.com/statuses/1022911970805043201
https://twitter.com/statuses/1022914415123881984
https://twitter.com/statuses/1022925761408249856

The Principles...

Quote:
Event Centre Assessment Committee

Appendix 1 - Draft Principles
  1. The Event Centre should be a meeting place for all Calgarians that includes, but not be limited to: concerts, assemblies, festivals, professional and amateur sports, linked to an outdoor gathering space.
  2. Public funds must be used to improve access and availability for individuals and groups, while also providing economic benefits for the Calgary economy.
  3. The Event Centre must be a catalyst to attract further vibrancy and investment as an anchor for further development in a mixed-use neighbourhood.
  4. The Event Centre must be viable and sustainable as its own entity while contributing as part of a comprehensive master plan vision that supports The City of Calgary’s planning objectives and enhances our communities’ brand and reputation.
  5. It is understood that a proposed Event Centre could be a partnership between The City of Calgary and external groups.
  6. Although funding negotiations will be kept private, there will be engagement with the public throughout the process whenever possible to ensure transparency.
  7. In the event that a funding agreement for an Event Centre is reached between The City of Calgary and external groups, it must be made public and presented to Council for final decision.
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Old 07-27-2018, 03:10 PM   #51
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so if Smith got voted in and proceeded forward with a new stadium, would people argue that he didn't get the mandate to do just that by winning an election where the arena debate was the elephant in the room?
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Old 07-27-2018, 03:24 PM   #52
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so if Smith got voted in and proceeded forward with a new stadium, would people argue that he didn't get the mandate to do just that by winning an election where the arena debate was the elephant in the room?
I'd argue that had Smith won he'd have a mandate to move forward with arena plans that corresponded with his campaign position. No more, no less.

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Should public tax dollars go towards a new arena for the Calgary Flames?

Smith – If we can show a corresponding benefit back to the community, some level of funding may be appropriate. But right now, there’s no deal and there never will be one under the current mayor. Like most Calgarians, I love the Flames. But any new deal has to put Calgary taxpayers first.
https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...-on-the-issues
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Old 07-27-2018, 03:42 PM   #53
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There was no actual daylight between Smith's and Nenshi's stated positions. The difference was perceived.
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Old 07-27-2018, 04:27 PM   #54
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"Event Centre Assessment Committee
Appendix 1 - Draft Principles
The Event Centre should be a meeting place for all Calgarians that includes, but not be limited to: concerts, assemblies, festivals, professional and amateur sports, linked to an outdoor gathering space.
Public funds must be used to improve access and availability for individuals and groups, while also providing economic benefits for the Calgary economy.
The Event Centre must be a catalyst to attract further vibrancy and investment as an anchor for further development in a mixed-use neighbourhood.
The Event Centre must be viable and sustainable as its own entity while contributing as part of a comprehensive master plan vision that supports The City of Calgary’s planning objectives and enhances our communities’ brand and reputation.
It is understood that a proposed Event Centre could be a partnership between The City of Calgary and external groups.
Although funding negotiations will be kept private, there will be engagement with the public throughout the process whenever possible to ensure transparency.
In the event that a funding agreement for an Event Centre is reached between The City of Calgary and external groups, it must be made public and presented to Council for final decision."

I feel like there should be another appendix just to explain exactly what some of the terms really mean with respect to this proposed Event Centre.
“Improve access and availability”. Improve over what?
What level of “economic benefits for the Calgary economy” is considered sufficient?
Define “further vibrancy”, and how will it be measured and by whom?.
What level of “investment” is considered enough, and in what form must the investment be?
Define “viable and sustainable”. Break even?
“contributing” what exactly?
What is the required level of “contributing as part of a comprehensive master plan vision”?
What is the “comprehensive master plan vision”?
How and by whom are the “communities’ brand and reputation” to be measured before and after?
Define “engagement with the public”. Just a notice? City-wide meetings? Plebiscite?
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Old 07-27-2018, 04:38 PM   #55
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I feel like there should be another appendix just to explain exactly what some of the terms really mean with respect to this proposed Event Centre.
“Improve access and availability”. Improve over what?
What level of “economic benefits for the Calgary economy” is considered sufficient?
Define “further vibrancy”, and how will it be measured and by whom?.
What level of “investment” is considered enough, and in what form must the investment be?
Define “viable and sustainable”. Break even?
“contributing” what exactly?
What is the required level of “contributing as part of a comprehensive master plan vision”?
What is the “comprehensive master plan vision”?
How and by whom are the “communities’ brand and reputation” to be measured before and after?
Define “engagement with the public”. Just a notice? City-wide meetings? Plebiscite?
Yeah... when I saw that my first thought was "how did they manage to use around 200 words without actually saying anything?".

If "funding negotiations will be kept private" what the heck are they going to be "transparent" about? Are they gonna send out a press release saying "we met today... we won't tell you what we said but we met".

Hey Bunk... if they're unwilling to make any public disclosure about funding what would any pre-agreement public engagement theoretically consist of?
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Old 07-27-2018, 04:41 PM   #56
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If "funding negotiations will be kept private" what the heck are they going to be "transparent" about? Are they gonna send out a press release saying "we met today... we won't tell you what we said but we met".

Hey Bunk... if they're unwilling to make any public disclosure about funding what would any pre-agreement public engagement theoretically consist of?
First you negotiate behind closed doors, then you show the public your draft agreement and they have their say. Get two parties to agree before you involve the third. It isn't rocket surgery.
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Old 07-27-2018, 04:43 PM   #57
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Yeah... when I saw that my first thought was "how did they manage to use around 200 words without actually saying anything?"
They tried very hard to keep it brief.

—No, really. Senior bureaucrats can write a 600-page report plus Appendices A through K without saying anything. It's what they do best.
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Old 07-27-2018, 04:43 PM   #58
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First you negotiate behind closed doors, then you show the public your draft agreement and they have their say. Get two parties to agree before you involve the third. It isn't rocket surgery.
That wasn't an answer to any question I asked.
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Old 07-27-2018, 04:49 PM   #59
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That wasn't an answer to any question I asked.
Yes, it was. What they are going to be ‘transparent’ about is the agreement that has yet to be worked out. Negotiating that in public isn't transparency, it's a recipe for not negotiating at all.
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Old 07-27-2018, 04:54 PM   #60
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Yes, it was. What they are going to be ‘transparent’ about is the agreement that has yet to be worked out. Negotiating that in public isn't transparency, it's a recipe for not negotiating at all.

...

Quote:
Although funding negotiations will be kept private, there will be engagement with the public throughout the process whenever possible to ensure transparency.
So if they're not going to talk about funding what the heck can they engage the public on before any AIP?
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