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Old 09-13-2017, 11:57 AM   #1
sureLoss
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Since it likely will get buried in the other thread

Calgary arena deal scuttled over tax exemption, recouping city investment: Sources

http://www.metronews.ca/news/calgary...g-sources.html

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Sources have told Metro the latest deal on the table involved a 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 model, where the City of Calgary would provide 1/3 of the upfront cost for the new arena, 1/3 would be recouped through a ticket surcharge and 1/3 would come from the Calgary Flames ownership.

Early cost estimates for a new arena were $500 million, but those familiar with the situation said some city officials believed the final tab would be higher - in the range of $600 million.

Where talks broke down, according to sources, was in how the city might recoup its initial investment, either through property taxes or a revenue sharing model. It was hoped the city could get back its initial investment over the next 30 years through a lease or rental arrangement with the Flames.

Information provided to Metro indicated those were the areas the two sides couldn’t agree upon.

CSEC was apparently looking for property tax exemption and wouldn’t flex on models for the city to recoup its investment, including possible revenue sharing options.

News Update


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Old 06-20-2018, 11:05 AM   #2
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Nenshi chimes in.

https://twitter.com/statuses/1009480678793142272
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Old 06-20-2018, 11:09 AM   #3
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Nenshi is but one vote. With him sidelined as leading the negotiations I say a deal is 98% done out of the gate.
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Old 06-20-2018, 11:15 AM   #4
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Nenshi is but one vote. With him sidelined as leading the negotiations I say a deal is 98% done out of the gate.
He was never leading negotiations...
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Old 06-20-2018, 11:23 AM   #5
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The man just can't help himself. No need for the tweet. No need for the public poke. The Flames responded to an inquiry from a council member, who made the inquiry public. The response was measured and practical. Nenshi is just being Nenshi, which doesn't help negotiations.
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Old 06-20-2018, 11:38 AM   #6
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He was never leading negotiations...
C'mon, don't spoil the narrative that the only reason the Flames don't have a new arena deal is because of Nenshi.
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Old 06-20-2018, 11:44 AM   #7
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C'mon, don't spoil the narrative that the only reason the Flames don't have a new arena deal is because of Nenshi.
I don't think that Nenshi is the main reason why the previous negotiations fell apart, but think he can easily scuttle this round... He just can't help himself by keeping his mouth shut or fighting the urge to tweet.
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Old 06-20-2018, 11:47 AM   #8
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What is there to really negotiate at this point though? The Flames clearly want the Nogoodmonton deal, the only way they're going to get it is by pushing this all the way...I'd kinda like to just fast forward to that to since that's the inevitable end game at this point. Negotiating seems like a total waste of time that can only inflame things.
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Old 06-20-2018, 11:56 AM   #9
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I'm glad to hear Nenshi is on the committee. I was afraid that the committee was going to be filled only with counselors to meek or unwilling to offer any push back to King's demands.
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Old 06-20-2018, 11:57 AM   #10
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The man just can't help himself. No need for the tweet. No need for the public poke. The Flames responded to an inquiry from a council member, who made the inquiry public. The response was measured and practical. Nenshi is just being Nenshi, which doesn't help negotiations.
Some people see anything this guy says as a slight or inflammatory. What is the actual issue here?

This letter that became public to keep negotiations private clearly implies that the city fouled in the last rounds. I'm surprised that's all he has to say, to be honest.
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Old 06-20-2018, 12:04 PM   #11
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I'm glad to hear Nenshi is on the committee. I was afraid that the committee was going to be filled only with counselors to meek or unwilling to offer any push back to King's demands.
The mayor is on all committees by default.
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Old 06-20-2018, 12:12 PM   #12
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The mayor is on all committees by default.
Cue the Price is Right (loser) music.
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Old 06-20-2018, 01:03 PM   #13
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The mayor is on all committees by default.
Yes, but when they were talking about making it (the new committee) the phrasing was "he could be a part of it or he could not". Nenshi saying he's on it (in my mind) means that he's planning on actively being part of it even if he's not the chair.
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Old 06-20-2018, 04:14 PM   #14
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CalgaryNEXT was supported by 2 or 3 councillors at the “launch”.
Colley-Urquhart and Woolley were there for sure. Can’t recall if others were or not.
I recall the first release being pretty explicit that there had been no formal talks with the city, and implied very little discussion behind the scenes.

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The man just can't help himself. No need for the tweet. No need for the public poke. The Flames responded to an inquiry from a council member, who made the inquiry public. The response was measured and practical. Nenshi is just being Nenshi, which doesn't help negotiations.
It's not Nenshi's job to help negotiations, it's his job to help Calgary and Calgarians.

We're driving around in a 1993 Honda Accord with 220000km's on it, but pretty much everything is working fine, including the A/C. The latch on the glove box is broken and there is a crack in the windshield, but it's mechanically fine. It could probably use new tires at some point, but it's safe.

Meanwhile, our actual house has a leaking roof, broken dishwasher, and the furnace is on the fritz, and may not get us through the winter. While many people are clamouring for a shiny new car, it isn't nearly as urgent as some of the other issues, and won't be as beneficial to all of the people living in the house. The car looks like it should be fine for another few years.

I'm okay with Nenshi reminding us that the new car better do more than just make our friend's from Edmonton jealous, make our carpool buddy a bit happier (CSEC, bumming free rides), and...maybe allow us to become an Uber driver (ie. attract a few more concerts each year...the revenue looks nice, until you factor everything else in and realize it's not worth it).

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Yes, but when they were talking about making it (the new committee) the phrasing was "he could be a part of it or he could not". Nenshi saying he's on it (in my mind) means that he's planning on actively being part of it even if he's not the chair.
He's on it by default. He's also said he doesn't plan to attend meetings, at least not at the start.
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Old 06-20-2018, 04:49 PM   #15
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Screw the house, I want a goddam new Aston Martin.
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Old 06-21-2018, 09:50 AM   #16
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I don't think that Nenshi is the main reason why the previous negotiations fell apart, but think he can easily scuttle this round... He just can't help himself by keeping his mouth shut or fighting the urge to tweet.
On one hand I'm very happy to have him playing devils advocate on the issue again, as many people would just line up to take it in the rear from these fat cat CSEC cronies. However, this is not at all constructive to start belittling the process before it even gets going again. Let's see if opinions have changed before we start poking old wounds again.

The smug, know it all Nenshi act is getting as old as the CSEC public benefit argument in a hurry. If this goes south again before the end of the summer I think the only plebiscite Calgary should hold is whether or not to launch King and Nenshi into orbit.
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Old 06-21-2018, 10:08 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by powderjunkie View Post
I recall the first release being pretty explicit that there had been no formal talks with the city, and implied very little discussion behind the scenes.



It's not Nenshi's job to help negotiations, it's his job to help Calgary and Calgarians.

We're driving around in a 1993 Honda Accord with 220000km's on it, but pretty much everything is working fine, including the A/C. The latch on the glove box is broken and there is a crack in the windshield, but it's mechanically fine. It could probably use new tires at some point, but it's safe.

Meanwhile, our actual house has a leaking roof, broken dishwasher, and the furnace is on the fritz, and may not get us through the winter. While many people are clamouring for a shiny new car, it isn't nearly as urgent as some of the other issues, and won't be as beneficial to all of the people living in the house. The car looks like it should be fine for another few years.

I'm okay with Nenshi reminding us that the new car better do more than just make our friend's from Edmonton jealous, make our carpool buddy a bit happier (CSEC, bumming free rides), and...maybe allow us to become an Uber driver (ie. attract a few more concerts each year...the revenue looks nice, until you factor everything else in and realize it's not worth it).



He's on it by default. He's also said he doesn't plan to attend meetings, at least not at the start.
Nice metaphor.

but the only problem with it is that the car may run fine, although if you lift the floor mats you can see the asphalt through the rust holes, when it rains heavily the sunroof leaks, and it is in general just so unattractive and unfun that the wife won't even ride around in it, the kids are starting to resent you for driving it because you look like an idiot in it, and its splitting the family apart because you can't go for fun drives in it anymore because it is just too fragile and needs to be maintained.

Basically the work on the house is already tabbed and budgetted for, and yeah would a new car hurt your pocketbook a little? sure but the kids don't want to do anything with you anymore and realistically the new car would be a great way to rekindle that sense of family.
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Old 06-21-2018, 10:25 AM   #18
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if your kids dont want to speak to you because you have a functioning vehicle, ya done parented wrong and more crushing debt wont magically fix any problems
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Old 06-21-2018, 10:31 AM   #19
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On one hand I'm very happy to have him playing devils advocate on the issue again, as many people would just line up to take it in the rear from these fat cat CSEC cronies. However, this is not at all constructive to start belittling the process before it even gets going again. Let's see if opinions have changed before we start poking old wounds again.

The smug, know it all Nenshi act is getting as old as the CSEC public benefit argument in a hurry. If this goes south again before the end of the summer I think the only plebiscite Calgary should hold is whether or not to launch King and Nenshi into orbit.
There already was a plebiscite on Nenshi.
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Old 06-21-2018, 12:11 PM   #20
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There already was a plebiscite on Nenshi.
Yeah and the alternative was worse......launching he and king into orbit would be an entirely different matter.
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